Determiner

Question

I read in an article that in grammar we cannot use two determiner followed after each other. For example, "The that man" is wrong.

I am not happy with this rule. Can't we really use two determiner after each other? If not, how can we use several adjectives one after another before a noun? Can you give me some example which contradicts the rule above?

Thank you.

Fivejedjon · Accepted Answer

Why would you want to use two determiners together?

Meteorquake · Answer

Looking at a list of determiners, the rule seems generally to be a good one.
But you can combine them by for example:
This my pen is a good one.
However, perhaps it could be said to be:
This, my pen, is a good one.
d

Mr genuine · Answer

I don't want to. I just want to get a broad understanding from this rule.

Mr genuine · Answer

Can we say the order of adjectives is an exception to this rule?

- A beautiful Italian red car

Fivejedjon · Answer

The oly thing you need to understand is that we do not use determiners together. In meteorquake's sentence, 'this' is a pronoun.

Fivejedjon · Answer

The 'rule' applies to determiners, not to adjectives.

Mr genuine · Answer

What are these examples, then?

his very few good ideas
all of the people

Fivejedjon · Answer

I should have been more specific. The 'rule' applies to articles, possessives and demonstratives, not to quantifiers.

AlpheccaStars · Answer

FreeguyI am not happy with this rule.

Too bad. If you want to write English correctly, you have to follow some rules.

Freeguy Can't we really use two determiners after each other?

There are some exceptions.
1 .There are certain words called "predeterminers" that can be used with another determiner.
http://grammar.about.com/od/pq/g/Predeterminer.htm

2. The quantifiers act as determiners, but they can be used with another determiner.
http://grammar.about.com/od/pq/g/Quantifier.htm

Many a young lass fell to his charms.
All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty together again.

3. The possessives can act as determiners. The possessive of proper nouns and personal pronouns cannot be used with another determiner. However, the possessive of common nouns can.

Mrs. Bailey's hat
If there is more than one Mrs. Bailey, it is possible to use an emphatic "this" or "that" to distinguish which one.

FreeguyIf not, how can we use several adjectives one after another before a noun?

Determiners, predeterminers and quantifiers modify nouns, but they are not adjectives.

There is no limit on the number of adjectives that can modify a noun.
True adjectives have comparative forms. (big, bigger, biggest)
True adjectives can be modified by an adverb (very big)

Determiners do not have these properties.
There is no such concept as "the-er" or "the-est"
You can't have a "very the dog"

CalifJim · Answer

FreeguyI am not happy with this rule.

It's oversimplified. See Huddleston's Introduction to English Grammar at the link below.

Note the chart of determiners on page 233 in section 6.4 Determiners.

https://books.google.com/books?id=irXAKZSHc38C&pg=PA233&lpg=PA233&dq=Huddleston+Introduction+determiners&source=bl&ots=7wKfkhlOmK&sig=-xvfyy0vfamB8v1YT8_85RnUJiw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3jZ3-taDLAhVS12MKHY7BCpoQ6AEIIzAB#v=onepage&q=Huddleston%20Introduction%20determiners&f=false

CJ

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