De-arrested

Question

There was some discussion here about the UK meaning of "de-arrested". A BBC quiz on the powers of police to arrest includes this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk politics/4119135.stm You are driving home after working late when you are stopped by two police officers. They say they are conducting an anti-terrorist operation and ask if they can search your car. What happens if you refuse?
A: The officers can arrest you
B: The officers have to obtain a warrant first
C: They cannot arrest you - you are free to go
The answer was A
Normally police need reasonable suspicion that you are carrying an illegal item before they carry out a search. If you refuse they have the power to arrest you, although this will not necessarily lead to a charge. If you are searched and nothing is found you can be 'de- arrested' on the spot.
I wonder if this counts as an arrest for US Visa purposes?

David
==
replace the first component of address
with the definite article.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:2]I wonder if this counts as an arrest for US Visa purposes?[/nq]
I would hazard a guess that it does. Especially if your initial arrest has been recorded and a file number allocated.
However someone on alt.travel.uk.air may be able to give a more informed answer.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]There was some discussion here about the UK meaning of "de-arrested". A BBC quiz on the powers of police to ... lead to a charge. If you are searched and nothing is found you can be 'de- arrested' on the spot.[/nq]
In other words, you can't really refuse. The police have been given the power to stop and search anyone without needing what previously would have been considered a valid reason. More and more, we are becoming them.
[nq:1]I wonder if this counts as an arrest for US Visa purposes?[/nq]
dg (domain=ccwebster)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I wonder if this counts as an arrest for US Visa purposes?[/nq]
Do US visas require reporting arrests but
not charges or convictions?

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Usenet · Answer

Don Phillipson typed thus:
[nq:2]I wonder if this counts as an arrest for US Visa purposes?[/nq]
[nq:1]Do US visas require reporting arrests but not charges or convictions?[/nq]
Short-term visitors to the US from certain countries do not have to obtain a visa but may visit under the Visa Waiver Programme. However, if you have ever been arrested, you probably don't qualify for the VWP and would have to apply in person at a US consulate for a "proper" visa, which gives them the chance to interview you about the circumstances of the arrest and turn you down if necessary before you go to the expense of travelling.

David
==
replace the first component of address
with the definite article.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Don Phillipson typed thus:[/nq]
[nq:2]Do US visas require reporting arrests but not charges or convictions?[/nq]
[nq:1]Short-term visitors to the US from certain countries do not have to obtain a visa but may visit under the ... about the circumstances of the arrest and turn you down if necessary before you go to the expense of travelling.[/nq]
The Visa Waiver form asks you (questions B and C):

B Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or have been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentance to confinement was five years or more; or have been a controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities ?
C Have you ever been or are you now involved in espionage or sabotage; or in terrorist activities; or genocide; or between 1933 and 1945 were you involved; in any way in persecutions associated with **** Germany or its allies ?
Though I'm not really sure for what you would be arrested if you refuse to allow the police to search your car, I think it is probable that you could answer "no" to both questions. However, IANAL.
Regards,
Arfur

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Don Phillipson typed thus: Short-term visitors to the US from ... if necessary before you go to the expense of travelling.[/nq]
[nq:1]The Visa Waiver form asks you (questions B and C): B Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an ... or have been a controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities ?[/nq]
The "moral turpitude" criterion covers a large and somewhat fuzzy area. It has no exact definition, thus allowing US immigration authorities to interpret it somewhat arbitrarily. Here's a list of crimes that have been held to involve "moral turpitude" for immigration purposes:
murder; voluntary manslaughter; accessory after the fact to murder; kidnapping; attempted murder; assault with intent to rob or kill or to commit abortion or rape; assault with a deadly weapon; aggravated assault against a police officer; child abuse; incest; bigamy; lewdness; arson; blackmail; robbery; burglary; extortion; malicious destruction of property; student loan fraud; counterfeiting, perjury, willful tax evasion; welfare fraud; crimes involving fraud.

These are all fairly-to-very serious crimes that refusing a search doesn't approach. Unless your record contains something relating the incident to a drug infraction, I would say it's no big deal.

But I'm not a lawyer. You would do well to consult a solicitor who has some experience in this area.

Chris Green

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]There was some discussion here about the UK meaning of "de-arrested". A BBC quiz on the powers of police to ... you can be 'de- arrested' on the spot. I wonder if this counts as an arrest for US Visa purposes?[/nq]
Why not? When in England, obey their laws.
And, what is a "reasonable suspiciion"? And of
what? If they are suspicious that you are a
terrorist bomber, they should be allowed to search for terrorist items, but not just anything. If they find something else illegal, like cocaine, are they allowed to arrest you? If they are, then the law
needs to be changed.
GFH

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]There was some discussion here about the UK meaning of ... is found you can be 'de- arrested' on the spot.[/nq]
[nq:1]In other words, you can't really refuse. The police have been given the power to stop and search anyone without needing what previously would have been considered a valid reason. More and more, we are becoming them.[/nq]
France?

Opening her own letter Dorothea saw that it was a lively continuation of his remonstrance with her fanatical sympathy and her want of sturdy neutral delight in things as they were?an outpouring of his young vivacity which it was impossible to read just now. -, "Middlemarch"

De-arrested

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