Counterpoint

Question

My understanding is that the phrase "in counterpoint to" has two rather different meanings to it.

One meaning is close to "complement," as in:

"The music works in counterpoint to the images on the screen."

Another meaning is close to "contrast," as in:

"What Hermon represents, however, is a note of hope in counterpoint to the mindless chant of no surrender."

I discover this only after looking it up in several dictionaries. My question is, for the general literate native speakers out there, are both usages equally familiar, or is one of them much more commonly seen that the other?

Also, would you regard "in counterpoint to" - at least in one of its meanings - as synonymous with "in contrast to"?

Thank you for your time.

Avangi · Accepted Answer

"Counter" of course means "against."

Bach's Two-Part Inventions are supreme examples of counterpoint.
Do the two lines work against each other? Absolutely!
Do they complement each other? Absolutely!
Is one a slave to the other? Absolutely not.

I guess my point is that I don't consider your definitions to represent "two rather different meanings."
"Counterpoint" is not a word to be used casually. People who use it advisedly are usually aware that it partakes of both opposition and cooperation.

SuperESL · Answer

Thank you for your reply.

My understanding is in line with yours in that I see 'counterpoint' as meaning 'a nice or pleasing contrast,' something that at once plays opposite another thing and complements it at the same time. My question is, can I treat "in counterpoint to" as identical in meaning to "in contrast to," given that "counterpoint" has that added "complementary" aspect to its meaning which "contrast" on its own does not?

I.e.
Counterpoint = contrast + complement
whereas
Contrast = contrast (pure and simple)

Perhaps let me exemplify the doubts I am having through several examples. Are "in contrast to" and "in counterpoint to" really interchangeable in all of these sentences?

"The company lost $7 million this quarter in contrast to a profit of $6.2 million a year earlier."

"The poverty of her childhood stands in contrast to her life in Hollywood."

"In contrast to Professor Johnson's view that WWII was nothing but a terrible human tragedy, the thesis of my book is that the war should be considered the origin of European liberal democracy."

Thank you.

Avangi · Answer

SuperESLcan I treat "in counterpoint to" as identical in meaning to "in contrast to,

I would say "No."

In a pure sense, it's never only one or only the other. Of course you may write a sentence which focuses on only one or only the other, but the context should imply the existence of both. Sometimes the word itself is sufficient to imply the existence of both.

- A.

Maybe I'm being pedantic. Shades of meaning do change over time. If your sources list "in contrast to" as a separate alternate meaning, that would suggest that a substantial number of people are using it that way.
I guess that was your original question.

You can say, "B's speech was a counterpoint to A's speech." "B's speech seemed to be in counterpoint to A's speech."
You'd probably mean that B countered A point for point.
Yes, I think it's fair to say that this usage exists. Someone who makes these statements means that B opposes A.
And there are probably people who are aware of this usage only.

Avangi · Answer

SuperESL"The company lost $7 million this quarter in contrast to a profit of $6.2 million a year earlier."

"The poverty of her childhood stands in contrast to her life in Hollywood."

"In contrast to Professor Johnson's view that WWII was nothing but a terrible human tragedy, the thesis of my book is that the war should be considered the origin of European liberal democracy."

I can't support replacing "in contrast" with "in counterpoint" in any of these specific examples.
I think there needs to be a linear comparison -- a parallel.

You could say "My book is a/in counterpoint to Professor Johnson's book/views."
"Her life in Hollywood stands in counterpoint to her life in poverty as a child."

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This quote evokes a musical parallel.

Hermon's "note" plays against the "mindless chant." You can substitute "in contrast" for "in counterpoint," but "in counterpoint" is actually better, because it carries the "linear" concept. There seems to be a continuity.

SuperESL · Answer

Avangi,

You said you can't support replacing 'in contrast" with "in counterpoint" in:

"The poverty of her childhood stands in contrast to her life in Hollywood."

But then you can accept:

"Her life in Hollywood stands in counterpoint to her life in poverty as a child."

Is your 'linear' concept one should start with the 'positive' or 'the present' and then contrast it with the ' negative' or 'the past', but not the other way round?

I was hoping that "in counterpoint to" can substitute for "in contrast to" at least in this following usage:

"In contrast to......
"In counterpoint to those who see Nationalism as a constructive force, I believe it is the most destructive human sentiment ever."

No?

You have been most helpful and patient with me. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I do like to get to the bottom of things, I know.

Enoon · Answer

The meaning "a contrary point in an argument" is obsolete. The word is a musical term applied only figuratively to anything else, and it necessarily entails a pleasing quality achieved by juxtaposition of contrasting elements.

Avangi · Answer

SuperESLIs your 'linear' concept one should start with the 'positive' or 'the present' and then contrast it with the ' negative' or 'the past', but not the other way round?

I wasn't referring to the order.
I meant there should be movement. It should not be static.
In contrast to A, the thesis of my book is B. "Thesis" has no movement.
Professor Johnson's view may comprise a number of different "scenes," against which a counterpoint may be constructed.
But your thesis is a single thing. I think for one thing to be "in counterpoint" to/with another, they should both have more than just a single point. (Well, I suppose one could keep repeating the same "note.")

SuperESL"In counterpoint to those who see Nationalism as a constructive force, I believe it is the most destructive human sentiment ever."

Again, I see the counterargument as too static.

SuperESL"Her life in Hollywood stands in counterpoint to her life in poverty as a child."

My rewrite here creates two parallel paths: her life as a child and her life as an adult. We can theoretically examine the contrast as we move along these paths.

Perhaps I'm arbitrarily insisting on this musical parallel: two moving lines.

- A.

SuperESL · Answer

Avangi,

I think your emphasis on 'processes over time' is an inspirational way of thinking about the use of 'counterpoint.' This is not the sort of insight I can get from a dictionary; I am glad I am able to glean it from you. Thank you.

Counterpoint

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