could/might in 3rd type conditional

Question

Hi there,I wonder whether both modals are acceptable to denote past possibility in the following sentence:"I might/could NOT have called James, the famous director,'Jimmy' at my first audition for him."Thanks for your comments.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

Paul Evdokimov could/might in 3rd type conditional

Your sentence is not a conditional.

Paul Evdokimovmight/could NOT have called

Both are possible, with different meanings.

I might not have called ... (Maybe I did; maybe I didn't; I don't remember.)
I could not have called ... (There is no possibility that I called. It's impossible.)

CJ

Paul Evdokimov · Answer

CalifJimYour sentence is not a conditional.

It is actually. The 'if-clause' is implied. It's a response to the interviewer's question "If you could edit your past, what would you change?"

CalifJimI might not have called ... (Maybe I did; maybe I didn't; I don't remember.)

I should have given away the question from the get-go... He did call the guy "Jimmy" and now feels sorry about it.

CalifJimI could not have called ... (There is no possibility that I called. It's impossible.)

In this sense 'can't have called' fits better. The thing is, 'I could have called' implies my possibility/ability to do smth. in the past, now how should one express the missed possibility/ability NOT to do smth. in the past using "could"?

CalifJim · Answer

Paul EvdokimovCalifJimYour sentence is not a conditional.It is actually. The 'if-clause' is implied. It's a response to the interviewer's question "If you could edit your past, what would you change?"

That's why we ask for context. Otherwise, we're all off to the races in the wrong directions trying to answer questions.

Given that information, only 'would not have' works for me, though 'might not have' is also possible. 'could not have' doesn't work at all in that context.

Paul EvdokimovI should have given away the question from the get-go

True. As noted above.

Paul EvdokimovIn this sense 'can't have called' fits better. The thing is, 'I could have called' implies my possibility/ability to do smth. in the past

I see. Very instructive.

Paul Evdokimovhow should one express the missed possibility/ability NOT to do smth. in the past using "could"?

You've lost me. You want "could" in the sentence, and you want "not" in the sentence, and you want the past ("have"), so the only thing I see is "could not have" + past participle. However, it seems it doesn't express the meaning you want exactly as you want it, so all I can say is that it's impossible to do (without it sounding awkward). You don't want the negation to apply to the modality but to the residue. ?I could have (just) not said that.

The typical solution to this problem is to change the phrasing, possibly using a verb with negative polarity, e.g.,

I could have refrained from saying that.
I could have stopped/prevented himself from saying that.
I could have chosen/decided not to say that.

Let me repeat, however, that none of these "could"s are as good as a "would" in answer to the given question.

CJ

Paul Evdokimov · Answer

CalifJimGiven that information, only 'would not have' works for me, though 'might not have' is also possible.

CJ, why have you excluded "should not have" from your list of options? It implies the author's regrets and self-criticism, which is the case, by the way.

CalifJimYou don't want the negation to apply to the modality but to the residue.

Exactly. a) Why did it work for "might not have done" in the original sentence just the way you displayed for notorious could, i.e. "I might have NOT called ..." ???

b) Look at the excerpt from M.Vince's "Advance language practice":
"Could have refers to past possibility or uncertainty.
David could have won the race if he had tried, (possibility/ability)
It could have been Sue, I suppose, (uncertainty)
• Couldn't have is also possible for both meanings."
Btw, for the speaker's certainty about a past action this pandit acknowledges "must have" and "can't have" only.

CalifJim · Answer

Paul Evdokimovwhy have you excluded "should not have" from your list of options?

Look at your thread title. There is no indication that you want information about "should". You asked about "might" and "could".

Paul EvdokimovExactly. a) Why did it work for "might not have done" in the original sentence just the way you displayed for notorious could, i.e. "I might have NOT called ..." ???

Negation works differently for each modal verb and how it is used. Negation with "could" negates the modal. Negation with "might" negates the residue.

He could not | lift that heavy table. ~ He did not have the ability | to lift the table.
He might | not come to the party with us. ~ It is possible that | he will not come to the party with us.

CJ

Paul Evdokimov · Answer

CalifJimYou asked about "might" and "could".

I did, but my last comment was on your praise to would: "Given that information, only 'would not have' works for me."

CalifJimNegation works differently for each modal verb and how it is used.

I got your point, and yet how would you comment Vince's "couldn't have is also possible for both meanings (possibilty/uncertainty)" ? Your assumption that negation with "could" negates the modal overturns his notion, i.e. turns possibility/uncertainty into certainty and makes couldn`t have done equal to can't have done...

CalifJim · Answer

Paul EvdokimovGiven that information, only 'would not have' works for me.

= Now that I know what the question was (If you could edit your past, what would you change?), only 'would not have' works for me.

The only direct answer to "... would you ...?" is "I would...".

Paul Evdokimovhow would you comment Vince's "couldn't have is also possible for both meanings (possibilty/uncertainty)" ?

"Couldn't have" is also possible for both meanings. This is equivalent to saying that "couldn't have" can mean "might not have" (the uncertainty meaning). I don't agree. Or at least I should say that I can't think of a situation where I'd use it like that. It's unfortunate that he gave no examples of this usage.

CJ

Fivejedjon · Answer

(Off topic). I do envy CJ his patience and tolerance.

CalifJim · Answer

Just don't lull yourself into believing they're infinite.

CJ

Paul Evdokimov · Answer

CalifJimIt's unfortunate that he gave no examples of this usage.

He didn't. It has perplexed me since Vince's a respected grammarist. (screenshot attached)

CalifJimThe only direct answer to "... would you ...?" is "I would...".

You're right. I wouldn't have posted my question if the original answer had been "I would ...", and the interviewee hadn't been a Brit, and the excerpt hadn't been printed in a text-book... Well, I changed the original cues a bit, but it didn't alter the grammar structure in any way. (screenshot attached)

could/might in 3rd type conditional

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