Could you help me on this one with the present perfect?

Question

Hi teachers,This is one of the possibilties with the present perfect:The present perfect can express actions or situations that have occurred at an indefinite time in the past. But then if I say:Robert has gotten up early this morning.I know 'this morning' is an unfinished period of time, but still apply that definition even though there is the present time marker?Thanks in advance.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

Thinking Spainactions or situations that have occurred at an indefinite time in the past

"At an indefinite (point in) time". That's not the same as "during an indefinite time period".

'this morning' is a period of time, not a point in time. All day long I can use the words 'this morning' to mean the morning of this day. If I utter my statement before noon, it's still 'this morning'. So you can say,

Robert has gotten up early this morning. (indefinite time during the current period, 'this morning')

But not

Robert has gotten up at 6:30 this morning. (definite time during the current period, 'this morning')

And after noon, not

Robert has gotten up early this morning. (indefinite time during a previous period, 'this morning')

To use the present perfect you can't have a gap between the time period when the event occurred and the time at which you say the words.

CJ

Tenacious Learner · Answer

CalifJimAt an indefinite (point in) time". That's not the same as "during an indefinite time period".

Hi Jim,
Thank you for your reply. It's crystal clear now. I can use 'this morning' because I'm talking about an unfinised period of time.
Isn't that 'point' important? I should certainly add, 'point in'. It does clarify a lot the meaning.

Then I have this one, rewritten after your advice.
The definite (point in) time is not usually important for the present perfect, the action or situation is more important.

My question is, I have to say 'usually' in that definition because the present perfect does refer to a 'time-point' with the preposition 'since', doesn't it?

TS

Tenacious Learner · Answer

Hi Jim,
Sorry, I have added another question.

TS

Shawn79 · Answer

He has had coffee three times since 6:00 AM.

The period may have a definite start (6:00 AM), but the the points of time of the three events remain indefinite.

So to answer your question, the point(s) of time do(es) not become definite with the use of "since".

Tenacious Learner · Answer

Shawn79He has had coffee three times since 6:00 AM.The period may have a definite start (6:00 AM), but the the points of time of the three events remain indefinite.

Hi Shawn,
Thank you for your reply.
It doesn't in your example. That's right.
How about this one?
She has lived in Wilton since 2005. Isn't '2005' a time-point expression?

TS

CalifJim · Answer

Thinking SpainThe definite (point in) time is not usually important for the present perfect, the action or situation is more important.

While this is true, I don't believe is it specific enough to speak in terms of what's more important and what's less important. Your statement does not say very precisely that the present perfect may not be used in a sentence that specifies a point in time (at which the event expressed with the present perfect occurs).

The use of 'since' is to show the beginning of the time period in which the present perfect event occurred. That's not the same as the time point at which the event in question occurred. (The end is always the moment of saying the sentence.)

Paul has mentioned that fact several times. Here the beginning of the time period in which the mentioning occurred is not specified.

Paul has mentioned that fact several times since last Monday. Here "since" marks the beginning of the time period of interest as "last Monday". It does not specify the points in time when the mentioning occurred.

But it would be wrong to say Paul has mentioned that fact last Monday because it specifies when the mentioning occurred.

CJ

Shawn79 · Answer

Thinking SpainShe has lived in Wilton since 2005. Isn't '2005' a time-point expression?

Oh yes, good example. I should have used "usually" in my statement!

What I had in mind were your examples in the other thread of events that can occur one or more times during a period that extends to the present. It's different when the entire period is the event as in:

Shawn has studied Spanish since 1995.

Good call TS.

Tenacious Learner · Answer

Hi Jim,
Thank you for your reply and explanations. It's very clear.
Then I think it is better to omit that one and use this one. It is the whole explanation. Do you agree? What do you think?

The present perfect connects the past with the present in one way or another. The present perfect can be interpreted as a completed action in the past or one that is not finished and continues from the past into the present.
The present perfect cannot be used for something that happened at a specific time in the past.
Therefore, we can use the present perfect when we don’t know when something happened, or when the specific time is not important.

TS

Tenacious Learner · Answer

Hi Shawn,
Thank you for your reply and nice words.

Shawn has studied Spanish since 1995. And the result is?

TS

CalifJim · Answer

Thinking SpainThe present perfect connects the past with the present in one way or another. The present perfect can be interpreted as a completed action in the past or one that is not finished and continues from the past into the present.The present perfect cannot be used for something that happened at a specific time in the past.Therefore, we can use the present perfect when we don’t know when something happened, or when the specific time is not important.

Sounds good.

CJ

Could you help me on this one with the present perfect?

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