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Question

Defining a Hero While Warming the Wine   Can you native-English speakers understand it?    It roughly means:     Discussing heroism while drinking

MountainHiker · Accepted Answer

Jobb,

Defining a Hero While Warming the Wine

I am going to make a completely wild guess. I might be dead wrong. So with that caveat, let's begin.

1) "warming the wine" ...normally when you drink wine, you hold the glass by the stem (neck, or narrow part) to AVOID warming the wine

2) If we assume that people are "warming the wine", then they are likely holding their glasses rather than drinking??

3) Defining a hero...means discussing a hero

In my mind's eye, I picture a group of people who were recently poured a glass of wine. But rather than drinking it soon, they became engaged in a discussion about how to define a hero. While they were discussing this topic, their hands (fingers) were warming the wine.

I would say they talked much more than drank...hence the warming.

Again, this is a wild guess. I have not heard that expression used before. Looking at the pieces, however, I think we can make a reasonable guess.

Hope that helps.

Jobb · Answer

The third of your guess is absolutely right, but the first and second were not that case. The expression is from one of the most famous literary works in China -- Three Kingdoms. The original expression means "put greengages into wine and cook it (to make the wine stronger thus catering for the taste of "heros") while discussing a hero".
How to convey the original expression exactly into English, it is a question.

MountainHiker · Answer

Jobb,

I am going to defer to others. If there is a common expression in English (and there very well might be one), I am unfamiliar with it.

Good luck!

Jobb · Answer

After waging a lengthy war, Cao Cao at last defeated Lü Bu. At that time, Liu Bei was powerless, so he had to follow Cao Cao. But Liu Bei was still determined to create a great career for himself.
Cao Cao seized all power after becoming prime minister, which made the emperor uneasy. Because Liu Bei was his distant kinsman, the emperor secretly requested his advice on a plan to oppose Cao Cao.
The plan failed. Cao Cao put many loyal ministers to death. Fearful for his safety, Liu Bei retired to his vegetable garden.
Once Guan Yu and Zhang Fei asked him, "Why don't you care about the country but only grow vegetables?" Liu Bei replied with a smile, "I have my own way."
One rainy day, Cao Cao invited Liu Bei over for wine. While warming the wine, they leisurely chatted.
Suddenly Cao Cao asked, "In your opinion, who can be a hero nowadays?" Liu Bei replied, "At present, the whole country is in disorder. Only a man with strength and power can be a hero." Then he mentioned several warlords. Cao Cao shook his head and said, "No, they are not fit. A hero should be ambitious."
"Then who would you name?" Liu Bei asked him. Cao Cao pointed at Liu Bei and himself, saying, "Only you and I are qualified."
Unnerved, Liu Bei dropped his chopsticks on the floor. Just at that moment, the sky thundered. "What loud thunder!" he exclaimed. "That really scared me!"
Cao Cao smiled, "How can a real man be afraid of thunder?" Liu Bei replied, "I have been afraid of thunder since I was a little boy. I wanted to find some place to hide every time I heard it." Cao Cao dismissed Liu Bei as a coward, and paid no more attention to him.
Afterward, Liu Bei agreed to help Cao Cao attack another warlord, and set off from Xuchang with his troops. But when he did not attack, Cao Cao realized what kind of man Liu Bei really was. He ordered his army to catch and kill Liu Bei.
What would happen to the three brothers? Please read "Taking Five Passes and Killing Six Generals."

I wonder if you feel the translation is clear or fine, MountainHiker?

MountainHiker · Answer

Jobb,

You are quite skilled with your English transations.

As I read it, nothing jumped out at me as being incorrect.

Some small items.

1) Comma usage

If we look at [url="http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_comma.html"]item 13[/url], we note the following sentence is incorrect.

I turned the corner, and ran smack into a patrol car.

Do you think your following sentence is similar?

"Afterward, Liu Bei agreed to help Cao Cao attack another warlord, and set off from Xuchang with his troops."

If you think there might be a problem, I would look at your work closely to see if there are other examples.

e.g. "Cao Cao dismissed Liu Bei as a coward, and paid no more attention to him."??

2) "Once Guan Yu and Zhang Fei asked him, "Why don't you care about the country but only grow vegetables?"

This seems a bit odd to me. I can't see the original, and even if I did, I would not understand it. But here are some thoughts....

a) If you care about OUR country, why are you busy wasting time growing vegetables?

3) "Unnerved, Liu Bei dropped his chopsticks on the floor." If he was unnerved, then why did he drop his chopsticks and why was he afraid of the thunder. He doesn't sound so unnerved to me.

I think you've done extremely well. I hope my comments are of benefit.

Miriam · Answer

"Unnerved" means "without courage or confidence".

The sentence "Unnerved, Liu Beu dropped his chopsticks to the floor" makes perfect sense.

Jobb · Answer

My area had a power cut and today it recovered.

(1) Such comma usage has been widely used by native English speakers. Still, it is incorrect accroding to the source you offered. The correction would be simply removing the comma.
If so, readers might feel the sentence is not so terse.

But if the rewriting is like this:

I turned the corner, running smash into a patrol car.

It works, but using dangling participle is sometime dangerous that might lead to misunderstanding.

(2) I didn't know what to say about (2) for the time being.

(3) Yes. if "Liu Bei dropped his chopsticks", that meant he threw his chopsticks to the ground'. So he was not unnerved. The fact is -- Because Liu Bei was unnerved, the chopsticks dropped from his hand. But how to rewrite it well? I didn't know. Apparently, it could not be expressed as:
Unnerved, the chopsticks dropped from his hand.
Because the dangling participle now refers to that the chopsticks were "unnerved", it is plainly wrong.

==
Oh, the translation is not by me.

MountainHiker · Answer

Oh, the translation is not by me.

You understand it very well, so you still get lots of brownie points.

(1) Yes, I know, for I frequently commit the same sin. However, you should follow the rules.

And you are very correct about dangling participles are sometimes dangerous because they might lead to a misundertanding. When that situation arises, you can rearrange the sentence so that it is clearer.

(2) that is a difficult one. There might not be a "literal" translation. So it is just a question of how you want the sentence to read and sound.

(3) The translation is okay.

I think you've done extremely well. Congratulations!

Could you figure out what is this saying?

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