Correctness of the English langlange is as much about the correct grammar as is about idiomaticness

Question

The correctness of the English langlange is as much about the correct grammar as is about idiomaticness. Having a grammatically correct written sentence doesn't alone guarantee it to be correct altogether - it has to idiomatic too. In other words, correct grammar plus idiomaticness makes a correct sentence. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

For example, both of the following sentences are arguably grammatically correct but only the #1 is 'actually' correct because it's also idiomatic. Correct?

1: I beg of you.
2: I beg from you.

Please help me. Thanks.

Avangi · Accepted Answer

Jackson6612Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think you're wrong, but it's really a matter of definition. Not everyone agrees on what constitutes correctness. You must at least recognize a range of standards.

Is a convoluted sentence incorrect simply because you have to read it ten times to figure out what it means?

If the writer misuses a term, or simply uses the wrong word - but everyone knows what he means - is it correct?

Do you always agree when someone tells you a sentence is incorrect?

Do you think standards are generally too tight, or too loose?

BTW, may I beg a quarter from you?

Khoff · Answer

By the way, "idiomaticness" is very low on the idiomaticness scale.
(But it's probably better than "idiomaticity.")

Cool Breeze · Answer

khoffBy the way, "idiomaticness" is very low on the idiomaticness scale.(But it's probably better than "idiomaticity.")

Random House Dictionary doesn't recognize idiomaticness at all. It offers idiomaticalness and idiomaticity,nothing else. I kind of like the latter.

If neither word sounds idiomatic to native ears, what noun would they use? Or is there no idiomatic noun at all in English?

CB

Avangi · Answer

I meant to mention that, guys, but I forgot. Guess I was having too much fun!

[D]

Jackson6612 · Answer

Cool Breeze
khoffBy the way, "idiomaticness" is very low on the idiomaticness scale.(But it's probably better than "idiomaticity.")
Random House Dictionary doesn't recognize idiomaticness at all. It offers idiomaticalness and idiomaticity, nothing else. I kind of like the latter. If neither word sounds idiomatic to native ears, what noun would they use? Or is there no idiomatic noun at all in English?CB

Thanks a lot, everyone. My M-W's Col. doesn't list "idiomaticity" as a word - according to it the noun for 'idiomatic' is "idiomaticness". I have just checked the M-W Unabridged which also goes along the same lines. I'm confused!

Anonymous · Answer

Jackson6612I'm confused!

So am I!

I think this only proves that English has a large vocabulary but it's unidiomatic to use the words.

CB

PS I cannot log in at the moment. Clearing the cookies doesn't help.

Cool Breeze · Answer

Jackson6612I'm confused!

So am I!

I think this just proves that English has a large vocabulary but it's unidiomatic to use the words.

CB

PS The log-in problem unexpectedly solved itself.

Avangi · Answer

Cool Breeze The log-in problem unexpectedly solved itself.

Did you read my thread in the "Help" forum? I thought I was the only one!
Well, your problem may have been a bit different. I was in ROM mode!

(I could read, but I couldn't write!)

By the way, do we use "idioticity" or "idioticness"?

Hmmm, the great authority "Scrabble" has only "idiotism." I think it refers to an example, rather than the quality.

Khoff · Answer

Jackson6612The correctness of the English langlange is as much about the correct grammar as is about idiomaticness.

Langlange? I didn't even notice this until I had been through this thread several times.

I don't know if "idiomaticness" is used by linguists, but I've never heard it before. (Nor have I heard "idimaticalness" or "idimoaticiy.") I also don't much like "the correctness of the English language" -- it sounds as though someone is judging the entire language as correct or incorrect, rather than a single utterance. So I would probably say soemthing like this:
"Whether or not something is "correct" in English depends as much on its being idiomatic as its being grammatical."

Avangi · Answer

Jackson6612The correctness of the English langlange is as much about the correct grammar as is about idiomaticness.

I think only BillJ can help us resolve this one.

khoffLanglange? I didn't even notice this until I had been through this thread several times.

We're suffering from TMI fatigue.

Another point which we can take from Alc24's threads, is the use of the "as much A as B" pattern.
Since the thrust of Jackson's argument seems to be that idiomaticness is given short shrift (a good point),
the two components should be reversed:
The correctness of the English language is as much about idiomaticness as [it is] about correct grammar.

Correctness of the English langlange is as much about the correct grammar as is about idiomaticness

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