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In my opinion if you had studied for this test a bit more you wouldn't have failed it though lots of students identify with you concerning the test. Thanks

Mister Micawber · Accepted Answer

Trying to squeeze too many conditions into a single sentence, Mav.

'In my opinion, if you had studied for this test a bit more, you wouldn't have failed it. I realize, however, that many students identify with you concerning the test.'

And I don't understand the second sentence, really. Identify with his failure? They failed too?

Maverick88 · Answer

Thanks.
Yes, identify that the test was too difficult.
Is it possible to integrate the both sentences into one?

Mister Micawber · Answer

It is usually 'possible' to make long convoluted sentences with many interrelated clauses, Mav, but it is also poor style. I notice that many of my students try to incorporate too many ideas into a single sentence, when there is no reason to do so, and end up with an unintelligible mess. Victorian romances and HD Thoreau wrote in complex structures that are time-consuming to deconstruct today, and William Faulkner once wrote a 50-page sentence, but modern style much prefers a modest mixture of short complex and simple sentences for clarity and force of expression.

'In my opinion, if you had studied for this test a bit more, you wouldn't have failed it and other students would not have thought it so difficult.'

That's not bad-- does it express your meaning?

Maverick88 · Answer

Not exactly. I meant that he HADN'T studied, FAILED the test, and NOT lots of students IDENTIFY with him. What you wrote is the "identification"'s belonging to the condition. I mean that the student could get a better mark if he studied. However, on the other hand it doesn't matter, because lots of students failed too, probably, and therefore identify with him.
I don't understand why the sentence in my first post in this thread isn't correct. Could you please interpret me this point?

Mister Micawber · Answer

Because this part of the sentence does not make clear sense to me:

'though lots of students identify with you concerning the test' (from your first post)
'identify that the test was too difficult.' (from your second post)
'lots of students failed too, probably, and therefore identify with him' (from your third post)

To 'identify something' is to recognize it from its characteristics.
To 'identify with someone' is to empathize with him/her, or to recognize the similarities between oneself and him/her.

The first part is clear:

'In my opinion, if you had studied for this test a bit more, you wouldn't have failed it.' -- this is a straightforward statement. But what is the relationship between this student's failure and the other students' failure?

Because they failed, they feel that the test is difficult? Because s/he failed the other students feel that the test is difficult? Because they also failed, they feel that they are like this student? If so, how does this relate semantically to the main thrust of the statement (the teacher's admonition to this student that s/he should have studied more)?

The problem with your initial sentence (and therefore the problem with my interpretation) is two-fold: (1) the grammar and/or vocabulary of the final clause is unclear, and (2) the pragmatics of your statement is unclear (in that I cannot see how the other students' reaction is meant to logically relate to the main statement).

Could you help me out here?

Maverick88 · Answer

Like you said "Because they also failed, they feel that they are like this student" and that's what I meant.
He hadn't studied---->he failed---->lots of students identify with him because they failed too
Thanks

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