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Usenet Posted 21 years ago
Usage
Conservative and liberal, Churchill style
An odd post, but I hope you'll put up with it.
There's a bit of a weird discussion over in alt.fan.cecil-adams about the supposed statement of Winston Churchill that "if you're not Liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not Conservative when you're 35, you have no brain."
Firstly, there's no evidence that he ever said anything of the sort, but that's not the point.
The point is that my American friends in AFCA believe that "Liberal" and "Conservative" should have lower-case initial letters, and hence refer to people's philosophies rather than their party political affiliations. I say that's rubbish - if Churchill actually had said that, he would definitely have been referring to the parties contending for power at the time.
Your thoughts?
John H
Yorkshire, England
There's a bit of a weird discussion over in alt.fan.cecil-adams about the supposed statement of Winston Churchill that "if you're not Liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not Conservative when you're 35, you have no brain."
Firstly, there's no evidence that he ever said anything of the sort, but that's not the point.
The point is that my American friends in AFCA believe that "Liberal" and "Conservative" should have lower-case initial letters, and hence refer to people's philosophies rather than their party political affiliations. I say that's rubbish - if Churchill actually had said that, he would definitely have been referring to the parties contending for power at the time.
Your thoughts?
John H
Yorkshire, England
Top answer
[nq:1]An odd post, but I hope you'll put up with it. There's a bit of a weird discussion over in ... [/nq] I find that quite important, myself.
- [nq:1]An odd post, but I hope you'll put up with it.
- There's a bit of a weird discussion over in ...
- [/nq] I find that quite important, myself.
- [nq:1]The point is that my American friends in AFCA believe that "Liberal" and "Conservative" should have lower-case initial letters, and ...
- had said that, he would definitely have been referring to the parties contending for power at the time.
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21 Answers
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[nq:1]An odd post, but I hope you'll put up with it. There's a bit of a weird discussion over in ... have no brain." Firstly, there's no evidence that he ever said anything of the sort, but that's not the point.[/nq]
I find that quite important, myself.
[nq:1]The point is that my American friends in AFCA believe that "Liberal" and "Conservative" should have lower-case initial letters, and
I find that quite important, myself.
[nq:1]The point is that my American friends in AFCA believe that "Liberal" and "Conservative" should have lower-case initial letters, and
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[nq:1]An odd post, but I hope you'll put up with it. There's a bit of a weird discussion over in ... not Liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not Conservative when you're 35, you have no brain."[/nq]
As thus printed, this famous saying is fantastic and stupid, so far as it refers to the two traditional parties that had alternated power in England for 150 years before Churchill
As thus printed, this famous saying is fantastic and stupid, so far as it refers to the two traditional parties that had alternated power in England for 150 years before Churchill
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[nq:1]An odd post, but I hope you'll put up with it. There's a bit of a weird discussion over in ... had said that, he would definitely have been referring to the parties contending for power at the time. Your thoughts?[/nq]
If he said it, then you're probably right. By the time I was born, just after the war started, the Liberal party had faded from the prominence it had during his time. I gr
If he said it, then you're probably right. By the time I was born, just after the war started, the Liberal party had faded from the prominence it had during his time. I gr
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[nq:1]An odd post, but I hope you'll put up with it. There's a bit of a weird discussion over in ... had said that, he would definitely have been referring to the parties contending for power at the time. Your thoughts?[/nq]
Churchill's your countryman, so you'd know better than I, but: I've heard the quote (whoever said it) and always assumed the lower-case meanings.
FWIW.
Maria Conlo
Churchill's your countryman, so you'd know better than I, but: I've heard the quote (whoever said it) and always assumed the lower-case meanings.
FWIW.
Maria Conlo
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[nq:2]An odd post, but I hope you'll put up with ... said anything of the sort, but that's not the point.[/nq]
[nq:1]I find that quite important, myself.[/nq]
Yes, so do I, but it's pretty clear that he probably didn't say it at all. The question is how, if he (or anyone else at whatever time is was supposed to have been said) would have capitalised (or not) the words "Conservative" and "L
[nq:1]I find that quite important, myself.[/nq]
Yes, so do I, but it's pretty clear that he probably didn't say it at all. The question is how, if he (or anyone else at whatever time is was supposed to have been said) would have capitalised (or not) the words "Conservative" and "L
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[nq:1]The earliest known version of this observation is attributed to mid-nineteenth century historian and statesman François Guizot: Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of head.[/nq]
Should that be capitalised?
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Should that be capitalised?
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
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[nq:1]An odd post, but I hope you'll put up with it. There's a bit of a weird discussion over in ... had said that, he would definitely have been referring to the parties contending for power at the time. Your thoughts?[/nq]
Churchill belonged to so many political parties in his search for power that there is a very good case to be made out for him never having uttered those words. If he ha
Churchill belonged to so many political parties in his search for power that there is a very good case to be made out for him never having uttered those words. If he ha
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[nq:1]An odd post, but I hope you'll put up with it. There's a bit of a weird discussion over in ... had said that, he would definitely have been referring to the parties contending for power at the time. Your thoughts?[/nq]
When would he have been saying it? IIRC, the Liberal party was pining for the fjords by the mid 20's, so if it was during the part of his career for which he is best known
When would he have been saying it? IIRC, the Liberal party was pining for the fjords by the mid 20's, so if it was during the part of his career for which he is best known
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[nq:1]A definitive answer arose in the wonderful book "Nice Guys Finish Seventh: False Phrases, Spurious Sayings, and Familiar Misquotations" by ... republican at 20 is proof of want of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of head.[/nq]
This guy was French. Did he say this in English or is it a translation? Reading a bit of what could be quickly gleaned from Google, it seems François Guizot
This guy was French. Did he say this in English or is it a translation? Reading a bit of what could be quickly gleaned from Google, it seems François Guizot
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[nq:2]The earliest known version of this observation is attributed to ... be one at 30 is proof of want of head.[/nq]
[nq:1]Should that be capitalised?[/nq]
There is no reason for "republican" to be capitalized in that sentence, unless you think that the GOP was important in early 19th century France. Guizot, even though a Royalist all his life, was part of the republican group that stupid
[nq:1]Should that be capitalised?[/nq]
There is no reason for "republican" to be capitalized in that sentence, unless you think that the GOP was important in early 19th century France. Guizot, even though a Royalist all his life, was part of the republican group that stupid
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