Confusion over the functions of a past participle

Question

Hi. Please take a look at the following two sentences and tell me if the first one has a "be" verb followed by an adjective, "done", and the second one is passive in structure.

1) Today's work is done. -- Here, the participle (is it a participle, anyway?) seems to be an adjective. I don't think this is a passive tense (with no agent).
2) Today's work is done by Sue. -- Here, it seems to be clear it is passive in structure.

But I think it is an opton for a person to let identity of the agent known in passive structure. So, if we take out the by phrase from the second example sentence, what we have now is two sentences that are exactly the same in sentential structure, only leaving the context as a clue to decide what the word "done" functions as. Do you agree?

eg,
1) Today;s work is done.
2) Today's work is done.

Then, another question seems begging for an explanation and that is how we can distinguish between those that have adjectives after a verb and those that have passive tenses.

The ball has been thrown out the playground. -- Here, the word "made" is a participle and the part "has been thrown" is a passive verb in structure with no agent mentioned.

Sorry if my post seems disorganized.

Yankee · Accepted Answer

Hi Anon

Anonymous1) Today's work is done. -- Here, the participle (is it a participle, anyway?) seems to be an adjective. I don't think this is a passive tense (with no agent).
2) Today's work is done by Sue. -- Here, it seems to be clear it is passive in structure.

I'd agree that "done" functions as an adjective in sentence 1.
Sentence 2 strikes me as an unrealistic sentence. I would not expect the simple present passive. However, any of these would be possible, for example:

- Today's work was done by Sue.
- Today's work will be done by Sue.
- Today's work is going to be done by Sue.
- Today's work must be done by Sue.

I suppose "is done" could be used if you expanded the sentence. For example:

- If today's work is done by Sue, we will have no end of customer complaints tomorrow.

AnonymousBut I think it is an opton for a person to let identity of the agent known in passive structure. So, if we take out the by phrase from the second example sentence, what we have now is two sentences that are exactly the same in sentential structure, only leaving the context as a clue to decide what the word "done" functions as. Do you agree?

eg,
1) Today;s work is done.
2) Today's work is done.

No, I would only understand "done" to be an adjective in your present tense examples. (See my comments above.) Other tenses or verb forms would usually not be as clear cut. And the fact that you chose "done" also plays a role here.

AnonymousThe ball has been thrown out of the playground. -- Here, the word "made" is a participle (???) and the part "has been thrown" is a passive verb in structure with no agent mentioned.

I agree that "has been thrown" is passive. There often is not a specifically identifiable agent in a passive sentence. Nor does there always have to be. Your sentence simply means that "Somebody has thrown the ball".

Since the word "made" did not appear anywhere in a sentence, I assume you must have forgotten to post whatever sentence it was in.

Avangi · Answer

Hi, Anon, I've been going through the same confusion lately and have decided to quit worrying about it. Of course it's important to understand and be aware of the issues involved, as you seem to be; but examples keep turning up which can be taken either way. In some cases there's ambiguity and in other cases it doesn't seem to matter.

Perhaps someone has put verbs into categories which go beyond the transitive/agent issue to help with this, but I'm not aware of it.

- A:

Fandorin · Answer

There are some explanations that could be useful in addition to the best ones have been described above.

CalifJim · Answer

AvangiPerhaps someone has put verbs into categories which go beyond the transitive/agent issue to help with this, but I'm not aware of it.

Same here. It seems that the past participles of certain verbs, for example, are virtually never interpreted as adjectives. One of these is thrown. Even in the simple The ball is thrown, it's doubtful any native speaker would ever think of thrown as an adjective. Why is that? Probably because you can't say *The ball is very thrown. But does this relate to a certain "category of verb"? I don't know. Maybe another forum member will chime in.

CJ

Confusion over the functions of a past participle

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