conditional

Question

Respected Gurus,#1.  If the Scots had voted for independence yesterday, the new country would come into existence on 24th March 2016.#2.  If the Scots had voted for independence yesterday, the new country would have come into existence on 24th March 2016.Can sentence #2 be correct? Is sentence #1 correct either? If not what is correct one? Please help me.

AlpheccaStars · Accepted Answer

#2 - It is the standard pattern for the third conditional.
https://www.englishclub.com/grammar/verbs-conditional_4.htm

MSoni · Answer

Thanks sir, but if part is past and main part is future.Then can #2 be correct?

Fivejedjon · Answer

MSoniThanks sir, but if part is past and main part is future.Then can #2 be correct?

Yes. The modal perfect form indicates a counterfactual situation.

AlpheccaStars · Answer

If the Scots had voted for independence yesterday, the new country would have come into existence on 24th March 2016.

The idea expressed in the main part of the sentence will never be true. That is why we use the modal (would, could, might) perfect.

If the Scots had voted differently, the sentence would be one written this way:

The Scots have voted for independence yesterday, the new country will come into existence on 24th March 2016.

MSoni · Answer

Again many thanks sir. My doubt remains. Can third conditional be used for future condition also. Like here. Also #1 is meaningful or not?

AlpheccaStars · Answer

MSoniAgain many thanks sir. My doubt remains. Can third conditional be used for future condition also.

Both first and third conditional involve the future. Please read this set of explanations of each of the conditionals. It is the clearest writing on the subject. It should clear up your doubts:

https://www.englishclub.com/grammar/verbs-conditional_1.htm

Fivejedjon · Answer

AlpheccaStars MSoniAgain many thanks sir. My doubt remains. Can third conditional be used for future condition also.Both first and third conditional involve the future. Please read this set of explanations of each of the conditionals. It is the clearest writing on the subject. It should clear up your doubts:https://www.englishclub.com/grammar/verbs-conditional_1.htm

That page does not appear to address a third conditional with future reference.

Because third conditional constructions are used only for hypothetical conditions and consequences that are known (or believed) by the speaker to be counterfactual, MSoni, both the condition and the consequence are normally past-time:

If the Scots had voted for independence last week (they did not vote for independence), David Cameron would have resigned (he did not resign)..

It is possible for a counterfactual past condition to have a present counterfactual consequence, in which case we normally used a mixed conditional:

If the Scots had voted for independence last week (they did not vote for independence), David Cameron would not still be Prime Minister (he is still Prime Minister).

However, it is possible to present this in third conditional form:

If the Scots had voted for independence last week (they did not vote for independence), David Cameron would not have still been Prime Minister today (he is still Prime Minister).

The third conditional form makes it absolutely clear that the possibility of Cameron not still being PM today is zero.

If a counterfactual past condition has a future counterfactual consequence, then the mixed conditional form is not possible:

~~If the Scots had voted for independence last week, the new country would come into existence on 24th March 2016~~.

AlpheccaStars · Answer

MSoniCan third conditional be used for future condition also.

Yes, it can. Here is a quote from the page I gave you:

We talk about a condition in the past that did not happen. That is why there is no possibility for this condition. The third conditional is also like a dream, but with no possibility of the dream coming true.

If the Scots had voted for independence yesterday, the new country would have come into existence on 24th March 2016.

The condition in the past in your sentence is the Scottish vote. The outcome expressed (Scottish independence) did not happen. So all consequences which depended on that action are impossible. It does not make any difference if those consequences are in the past, the present, of the future relative to the speaker's time.

Thus, you can have any of the combinations:

If the Scots had voted for independence yesterday, the "yes" voters would have celebrated after the polls closed. (Past->past)

If the Scots had voted for independence yesterday, the opposition would have asked for a recount today. (Past->present)

If the Scots had voted for independence yesterday, the new country would have come into existence on 24th March 2016. (Past->future)

MSoni · Answer

Thanks. your suggested website does not tell anything about:

(Past->future)
Could you pl suggest some other website that can address the issue.

conditional

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