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Usenet Posted 22 years ago
Usage
Compound, Complex Sentences and Commas
Hi,
I have asked similar questions here before, so please forgive me while I wrestle with this one topic.
Where I have difficulty is with commas in compound, complex sentences.
For example...
Original (my preference)
Mr. Johnston and his son have applied for a patent in the US, and if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.
Modified (correct?)
Mr. Johnston and his son have applied for a patent in the US, and, if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.
Note the additional comma after "and". But if I were to say this sentence out loud, I wouldn't pause after the "and." So, to me, this additional comma doesn't belong. Yet I want to be correct.
I went hunting through various online sources, and found something similar.
http://ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/quizzes/nova/nova1.htm (see example #5)
(correct version below)
Analyzing the data reveals public support of conflict, for as environmental issues become a variable, attitudes towards war become more complex.
(modified and presumably incorrect)
Analyzing the data reveals public support of conflict, for, as environmental issues become a variable, attitudes towards war become more complex.
Can someone provide a few pearls of wisdom as to how I should think about how to punctuate a compound, complex sentence?
Where I have specific difficulty is the comma punctuation after the coordinating conjunction leading into the subordinate clause. To my thinking, if the subordinate clause is not long or if you would not pause in your speach at that specific point, then no comma is required.
Thank you for your assistance.
HS
I have asked similar questions here before, so please forgive me while I wrestle with this one topic.
Where I have difficulty is with commas in compound, complex sentences.
For example...
Original (my preference)
Mr. Johnston and his son have applied for a patent in the US, and if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.
Modified (correct?)
Mr. Johnston and his son have applied for a patent in the US, and, if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.
Note the additional comma after "and". But if I were to say this sentence out loud, I wouldn't pause after the "and." So, to me, this additional comma doesn't belong. Yet I want to be correct.
I went hunting through various online sources, and found something similar.
http://ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/quizzes/nova/nova1.htm (see example #5)
(correct version below)
Analyzing the data reveals public support of conflict, for as environmental issues become a variable, attitudes towards war become more complex.
(modified and presumably incorrect)
Analyzing the data reveals public support of conflict, for, as environmental issues become a variable, attitudes towards war become more complex.
Can someone provide a few pearls of wisdom as to how I should think about how to punctuate a compound, complex sentence?
Where I have specific difficulty is the comma punctuation after the coordinating conjunction leading into the subordinate clause. To my thinking, if the subordinate clause is not long or if you would not pause in your speach at that specific point, then no comma is required.
Thank you for your assistance.
HS
Top answer
[nq:1]Hi, I have asked similar questions here before, so please forgive me while I wrestle with this one topic. Where ... " So, to me, this additional comma doesn't belong.
- [nq:1]Hi, I have asked similar questions here before, so please forgive me while I wrestle with this one topic.
- Where ...
- " So, to me, this additional comma doesn't belong.
- [/nq]^ Put a comma here >.
- I'd go with the modified version (with the additional comma).
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26 Answers
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[nq:1]Hi, I have asked similar questions here before, so please forgive me while I wrestle with this one topic. Where ... I wouldn't pause after the "and." So, to me, this additional comma doesn't belong. Yet I want to be correct.[/nq]^
Put a comma here >.
I'd go with the modified version (with the additional comma). That is what I was taught when it was grammatical rules that were dict
Put a comma here >.
I'd go with the modified version (with the additional comma). That is what I was taught when it was grammatical rules that were dict
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Harry Sampson wrote on 03 May 2004:
[nq:1]Hi, I have asked similar questions here before, so please forgive me while I wrestle with this one topic. Where ... son have applied for a patent in the US, and, if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.[/nq]
Yes, this is formally correct and recommended(1). However, the "also" is redundant in both versions, as is every othe
[nq:1]Hi, I have asked similar questions here before, so please forgive me while I wrestle with this one topic. Where ... son have applied for a patent in the US, and, if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.[/nq]
Yes, this is formally correct and recommended(1). However, the "also" is redundant in both versions, as is every othe
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[nq:1]. . .[/nq]
[nq:2]Original (my preference) Mr. Johnston and his son have applied ... if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.[/nq]
Either way is fine.
[nq:2]Note the additional comma after "and". But if I were ... the "and." So, to me, this additional comma doesn't belong.[/nq]
Then leave it out.
[nq:2]I went hunting through various online sources,
[nq:2]Original (my preference) Mr. Johnston and his son have applied ... if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.[/nq]
Either way is fine.
[nq:2]Note the additional comma after "and". But if I were ... the "and." So, to me, this additional comma doesn't belong.[/nq]
Then leave it out.
[nq:2]I went hunting through various online sources,
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[nq:1]Hi, I have asked similar questions here before, so please forgive me while I wrestle with this one topic. Where ... son have applied for a patent in the US, and, if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.[/nq]
I would personally write this without the comma before the and. Some centuries ago, when I learnt the rudiments of this stuff, I was taught that a comma was
I would personally write this without the comma before the and. Some centuries ago, when I learnt the rudiments of this stuff, I was taught that a comma was
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[nq:1]Some centuries ago, when I learnt the rudiments of this stuff, I was taught that a comma was a placeholder for "and", so therefore you shouldn't put a comma before one.[/nq]
So, for , your teacher wanted you to write ? and for , your teacher wanted you to write ?
So, for , your teacher wanted you to write ? and for , your teacher wanted you to write ?
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But here the commas mark a parenthesis, so there must be two of them; and the first has to go after the 'and'.
There's a case for a semi-colon after 'US' if it's felt that there are too many commas for comfort.
Mike.
There's a case for a semi-colon after 'US' if it's felt that there are too many commas for comfort.
Mike.
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[nq:2]Remove the comma from the above sentence.[/nq]
[nq:1]That comma tells us how you want your sentence pronounced, so feel free to leave it in.[/nq]
Huh? How does he want it to be pronounced? With a pause? Suggesting that it was someone else who found something similar? That's silly. He went and found.
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
[nq:1]That comma tells us how you want your sentence pronounced, so feel free to leave it in.[/nq]
Huh? How does he want it to be pronounced? With a pause? Suggesting that it was someone else who found something similar? That's silly. He went and found.
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
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[nq:1]Yes, this is formally correct and recommended(1). However, the "also" is redundant in both versions, as is every other case ... "for" in your second. Sometimes the comma is absolutely necessary regardless of whether one pauses in speech. Sometimes it isn't.[/nq]
CyberCypher,
I am not sure if you had a reference to (1), but I appeared to have missed it.
Thank you for the "and...al
CyberCypher,
I am not sure if you had a reference to (1), but I appeared to have missed it.
Thank you for the "and...al
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[nq:2]Some centuries ago, when I learnt the rudiments of this ... "and", so therefore you shouldn't put a comma before one.[/nq]
[nq:1]So, for , your teacher wanted you to write ? and for , your teacher wanted you to write ?[/nq]
Well, I was only about 6 or 7 years old, and that was 40 years ago. Maybe what she said was that the comma stood for another word - most often, in a list, the wor
[nq:1]So, for , your teacher wanted you to write ? and for , your teacher wanted you to write ?[/nq]
Well, I was only about 6 or 7 years old, and that was 40 years ago. Maybe what she said was that the comma stood for another word - most often, in a list, the wor
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[nq:2]So, for , your teacher wanted you to write ... you to write ?[/nq]
[nq:1]Well, I was only about 6 or 7 years old, and that was 40 years ago. Maybe what she said ... Paris IN France, When in doubt THEN leave it out. I still think the comma before the "and" is wrong.[/nq]
When I was only about 6 or 7 years old, and that was more than 50 years ago, I was taught that when "and" falls bet
[nq:1]Well, I was only about 6 or 7 years old, and that was 40 years ago. Maybe what she said ... Paris IN France, When in doubt THEN leave it out. I still think the comma before the "and" is wrong.[/nq]
When I was only about 6 or 7 years old, and that was more than 50 years ago, I was taught that when "and" falls bet
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