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MountainHiker Posted 22 years ago
Grammar
Complex sentences, restrictive clauses, and comma usage
Hi,
I am going to ask about three sentences. I will give you two options to choose from in each instance.
Where I have difficulty is when I have a subordinate clause buried in the middle of the sentence. I will try to elaborate where I have difficulty in each of the three sentences.
*** #***
(original version--my preference)
Mr. Johnston and his son have applied for a patent in the US, and if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.
(modified--correct?)
Mr. Johnston and his son have applied for a patent in the US, and, if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.
Note the additional comma after "and". But if I were to say this sentence out loud, I wouldn't pause after the "and." So, to me, this additional comma doesn't belong. Yet, I want to be correct. Also, the "if you believe the documentation" seems to me to be a restrictive clause, so I don't want to set it off.
*** #***
(original version below)
Analyzing the data reveals public support of conflict, for as environmental issues become a variable, attitudes towards war become more complex.
(modified version)
Analyzing the data reveals public support of conflict, for, as environmental issues become a variable, attitudes towards war become more complex.
Very similar to the Sentence #1.
Where I have specific difficulty is the comma punctuation after the coordinating conjunction leading into the subordinate clause. To my thinking, if the subordinate clause is not long or if you would not pause in your speach at that specific point, then no comma is required.
*** #***
(original version below)
As long as the building can be used for other purposes, the risk to the city is mitigated because should the company fold, the city can sell or lease the building to another third party.
(modified version)
As long as the building can be used for other purposes, the risk to the city is mitigated because, should the company fold, the city can sell or lease the building to another third party.
This sentence follows the same sort of theme. The introductory clause is set off with a comma. The "because clause" is restrictive, so it ought NOT be set off with a comma. To my thinking, the "should the company fold" clause is also restrictive so it too should not be set off with a comma, but the following "the city can selll or lease the building to another third party" should be set off.
I am most appreciative of your throughts as to how I should think about these sentences. Complex sentences like the ones above always cause me a bit of grief.
Thank you.
MountainHiker
I am going to ask about three sentences. I will give you two options to choose from in each instance.
Where I have difficulty is when I have a subordinate clause buried in the middle of the sentence. I will try to elaborate where I have difficulty in each of the three sentences.
*** #***
(original version--my preference)
Mr. Johnston and his son have applied for a patent in the US, and if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.
(modified--correct?)
Mr. Johnston and his son have applied for a patent in the US, and, if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.
Note the additional comma after "and". But if I were to say this sentence out loud, I wouldn't pause after the "and." So, to me, this additional comma doesn't belong. Yet, I want to be correct. Also, the "if you believe the documentation" seems to me to be a restrictive clause, so I don't want to set it off.
*** #***
(original version below)
Analyzing the data reveals public support of conflict, for as environmental issues become a variable, attitudes towards war become more complex.
(modified version)
Analyzing the data reveals public support of conflict, for, as environmental issues become a variable, attitudes towards war become more complex.
Very similar to the Sentence #1.
Where I have specific difficulty is the comma punctuation after the coordinating conjunction leading into the subordinate clause. To my thinking, if the subordinate clause is not long or if you would not pause in your speach at that specific point, then no comma is required.
*** #***
(original version below)
As long as the building can be used for other purposes, the risk to the city is mitigated because should the company fold, the city can sell or lease the building to another third party.
(modified version)
As long as the building can be used for other purposes, the risk to the city is mitigated because, should the company fold, the city can sell or lease the building to another third party.
This sentence follows the same sort of theme. The introductory clause is set off with a comma. The "because clause" is restrictive, so it ought NOT be set off with a comma. To my thinking, the "should the company fold" clause is also restrictive so it too should not be set off with a comma, but the following "the city can selll or lease the building to another third party" should be set off.
I am most appreciative of your throughts as to how I should think about these sentences. Complex sentences like the ones above always cause me a bit of grief.
Thank you.
MountainHiker
Top answer
By far the best advice I can give you is to break these sort of sentences into two. Writing long sentences filled with commas - correctly placed or not - is a bad habit that needs dropping if you are serious about improving your writing. Mr.
- By far the best advice I can give you is to break these sort of sentences into two.
- Writing long sentences filled with commas - correctly placed or not - is a bad habit that needs dropping if you are serious about improving your writing.
- Mr.
- Johnston and his son have applied for a patent in the US, and, if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.
- Mr.
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22 Answers
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By far the best advice I can give you is to break these sort of sentences into two. Writing long sentences filled with commas - correctly placed or not - is a bad habit that needs dropping if you are serious about improving your writing.
Mr. Johnston and his son have applied for a patent in the US, and, if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.
Mr. Johnsto
Mr. Johnston and his son have applied for a patent in the US, and, if you believe the documentation, they also have foreign patents.
Mr. Johnsto
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Hello, MountainHiker 
I hope I can help you here. Some commas are required, some others seem to be optional.
Sent
I hope I can help you here. Some commas are required, some others seem to be optional.
Sent
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Hi Miriam,
Thank you for the time and effort to respond to my questions.
Thank you for the time and effort to respond to my questions.
00
Hello again, MountainHiker.
It was my pleasure to respond.
I'm sorry you didn't find my explanation solid enough; I'm afraid I don't have any 'alternatives' to offer in this particular case. If you don't feel comfortable with the commas because they conflict with the way you would say the sentences out loud, and if you think you can trust your feelings in this matter, then by
It was my pleasure to respond.
I'm sorry you didn't find my explanation solid enough; I'm afraid I don't have any 'alternatives' to offer in this particular case. If you don't feel comfortable with the commas because they conflict with the way you would say the sentences out loud, and if you think you can trust your feelings in this matter, then by
00
Hi Miriam,
I very much enjoyed both your responses. I think my question is quite difficult, so I appreciate everyone's opinion. And as you correctly pointed out, it might even be a matter of taste or preference.
I am being a bit pedantic with my question. Maybe more than a bit,
I very much enjoyed both your responses. I think my question is quite difficult, so I appreciate everyone's opinion. And as you correctly pointed out, it might even be a matter of taste or preference.
I am being a bit pedantic with my question. Maybe more than a bit,
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I should think 'commas' are an important part of the written language and should be used to help you clarify your thoughts and feelings. I am particularly very fond of them as they are visually highly effective in helping us to understand the meaning of the lines, above all in poetry and songs. It's a good way of joining thoughts.
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MountainHiker,
Of curse you can ask me about Spanish. I see you are still online. Perhaps we could meet in the chatroom here on the forums? To me personally it would be much easier than using emails.
Your question was not difficult really. It was just that, sometimes, when feelings are involved, rules don't seem to count much.
Miriam
And now you're not! Perhaps
Of curse you can ask me about Spanish. I see you are still online. Perhaps we could meet in the chatroom here on the forums? To me personally it would be much easier than using emails.
Your question was not difficult really. It was just that, sometimes, when feelings are involved, rules don't seem to count much.
Miriam
And now you're not! Perhaps
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Miriam,
I can't find the chatroom here. So I trust you are correct in that it exists, but you will have to tell me where the link is. Maybe in addition, you could provide the link as well.
<> Okay, I am easy either way.
<>
Well, I think it is hard
I can't find the chatroom here. So I trust you are correct in that it exists, but you will have to tell me where the link is. Maybe in addition, you could provide the link as well.
<
<
Well, I think it is hard
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Yes, the chatroom exists, I didn't make that up! ~L~
If you have a careful at the home page of the forums, you will find the link that will take you to the room.
The link is on the left side of the page. It is the last of four links you will see right under the word "help" written in large, bold type.
Hope you can find it.
Miriam
If you have a careful at the home page of the forums, you will find the link that will take you to the room.
The link is on the left side of the page. It is the last of four links you will see right under the word "help" written in large, bold type.
Hope you can find it.
Miriam
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