"complex" as a noun (Russo-English :-)

Question

Hi,My colleagues often use (when it is required to translate our tech documentation into English)  the noun "complex" to designate  (highly) integrated systems (equipment) consisting of a number of  complicated (complex) hardware and software components.What do you think of the folowing usage:EX: "We have developed a state-of-the-art HW&SW complex that allows (doing so and so)..."EX: "This software complex is intended to (do so and so)"I am familiar with such collocations as "an apartment complex" or " military-industrial complex" but still not sure is the phrases like "this hardware complex is second to none" make sense to native English speakers?Perhaps there is a good replacement for "complex" (= highly integrated HW/SW system) in such context?mus-te

Clive · Accepted Answer

The word 'complex' for this seems fine to me. So does the word 'system'.

In your area, I assume the term 'HW/SW' is common. Personally, I haven't encountered this abbreviation.

MUSCOVITE · Answer

Anonymous · Answer

In my opinion, "complex" is not the right word to use in this instance. One might say that the hardware and software is complex, but the word complex is typically not used to designate a complex hardware and software product. In this situation you might say something like:

a state-of-the art hardware and software system/package that allows ...

this software product/system/package is intended to ...

In my opinion, it would not be necessary to emphasize the complexity of such systems, as their complexity is well-known by everyone. Nor would it be necessary to say the such a system is "highly integrated," because again, it is well-known that such systems are highly integrated.

MUSCOVITE · Answer

AnonymousIn my opinion, "complex" is not the right word to use in this instance.

Thank you Anon!

I may be wrong but ... it seems to me that MOST native English speakers would side with you, not Clive (regarding the term "hardware/software complex").

Let me recap. The following four word combinations are all flawless, aren't they?

software&hardware system
software&hardware product
software&hardware package
software&hardware solution?

Let me ask you a couple more questions.

(1) (sic!) software&hardware device - does is sound ok to you?

(2) This is a full-fledged functionality solution/product/version VERSION This is a solution/version/etc with full-fledged functionality.
Which of them is OK? If both are passable, which is "better" to your eye?
Can I replace "full-fledged" by "full-scale" in the above example phrases? (Any subtle differences between the two?)

mus-te

CalifJim · Answer

MUSCOVITEsoftware&hardware system software&hardware product software&hardware package software&hardware solution

As "software and hardware" or "software-hardware" instead of "software&hardware", I would accept all four of those. Less so for "software-hardware device". Software is too abstract to form the substance of which a device must be composed. "Hardware device" is the only possibility for me. My understanding of "device" is that it's some kind of object you can pick up in your hands to take a look at its component parts. Lines of code don't fulfill that criterion, at least not in the same sense.

MUSCOVITEThis is a full-fledged functionality solution/product/version VERSION

Oof! So this includes the case "full-fledged functionality version version"? Maybe I don't understand your way of coding your question.

MUSCOVITEThis is a solution/version/etc with full-fledged functionality.

This is better.

MUSCOVITECan I replace "full-fledged" by "full-scale"

Yes, and it is better by far. This is a version with full-scale functionality.

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

MUSCOVITEI am familiar with such collocations as "an apartment complex" or " military-industrial complex" but still not sure is the phrases like "this hardware complex is second to none" make sense to native English speakers?

In my opinion this use of "complex" is aptly called "Russo-English" in your header.

Are those who use this term in this way older members of your staff? I ask because to me this sounds like terminology from the 1950s. In my mind, "complex" belongs historically with terms like "Cold War" and "Soviet Realism". (Just my opinion based on my own free-association of ideas.)

CJ

MUSCOVITE · Answer

CalifJim"Hardware device" is the only possibility for me.

In the technology I have to deal with the term "virtual device" (which many sw engineers consider synonymous with "software device") is very common. It's 100% tech speak of course ...I agree .... "software device" would sound real weird to the man on the street :-)

CalifJimOof! So this includes the case "full-fledged functionality version version"? Maybe I don't understand your way of coding your question.

Consider the following example.
They can offer only a demo version at the moment whereas I need a full-fledged functionality product.

I haven't been able to find (in COCA) any examples meeting the search criteria "full-fledged functionality [NOUN]" ... and so I am not sure if, say, "a full-fledged functionality version" is in some way "inferior" to "a version with full-fledged functionality".

MUSCOVITE · Answer

CalifJimAre those who use this term in this way older members of your staff? I ask because to me this sounds like terminology from the 1950s. In my mind, "complex" belongs historically with terms like "Cold War" and "Soviet Realism". (Just my opinion based on my own free-association of ideas.)

I don't think that the noun "complex" is mostly used by those (of my fellow countymen) who are in their sixties/seventies...
This word is not age/gender, etc, specific imho:-).
Curiously, the English nouns system and complex have calques in Russian, the term device too keeps gaining popularity here (especially among younger people) and will no doubt become another loan word for us in the near future ... Even the English word solution can be occasionally heard in our meetings/workshops/seminars, etc. these days. Farewell my pristine Russian language :-)

As for "Soviet Realism", it should be "Socialist Realism" actually :-)

CalifJim · Answer

MUSCOVITEI don't think that the noun "complex" is mostly used by those (of my fellow countymen) who are in their sixties/seventies.

Good information. I suspected otherwise, as I said.

MUSCOVITEEven the English word solution can be occasionally heard

Shocking!

MUSCOVITEFarewell my pristine Russian language :-)

I'm afraid things aren't going to get better for any language. It's all global 'this' and global 'that' these days. We're already used to it in English. We'll pick up anything from anywhere and claim it as an English word!

MUSCOVITEAs for "Soviet Realism", it should be "Socialist Realism" actually :-)

OK. Actually I'm pretty sure I've heard both. Maybe others are making the same mistake that I'm making. (Or I'm listening to myself too much.) In any case it's good to know which one is correct.

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

MUSCOVITE"virtual device"

Yes. When you add "virtual" it makes more sense to me. I don't know how "software" got to substitute for "virtual", but as you say, it's the term in that technology.

MUSCOVITE"a full-fledged functionality version" [ vs ] "a version with full-fledged functionality".

I think that my personal opinion is about all I can offer as an answer to your question. Personally, I think that the meaning is easier to grasp in the second one, but strictly speaking both are grammatical.

CJ

"complex" as a noun (Russo-English :-)

Top answer

Get the Weekly English Kit 📬

Related Questions