Commas before "except" and "but"

Question

It is optional whether or not to put a comma before "except" or "but" when used in the following way, correct?

"You think anyone cares about me, except for you?"
"You think anyone cares about me, but you?"

I'm thinking it all depends on whether or not there is meant to be a pause at that point by the speaker. I mean, I don't think either would be grammatically incorrect if the comma was not there.

Thanks.

Enoon · Accepted Answer

Snarf It is optional whether or not to put a comma before "except" or "but" when used in the following way, correct?"You think anyone cares about me, except for you?""You think anyone cares about me, but you?"I'm thinking it all depends on whether or not there is meant to be a pause at that point by the speaker. I mean, I don't think either would be grammatically incorrect if the comma was not there.Thanks.

Those commas are wrong, and they disrupt the flow of reading. If you are writing dialogue, and you want pauses, you should resort to tricks rather than use commas that will call attention to themselves for being extraneous.

"You think anyone cares about me?" she asked, eyes downcast, "Except for you."
"You think anyone cares about me ... but you?" she whined.

Snarf · Answer

enoonThose commas are wrong, and they disrupt the flow of reading.

What about in a case like this where the sentence is a lot longer and could use a breather?

"You think anyone with a good head on their shoulders drops by the abode of a psychotic, grouchy old buzzard like me, except for you?!"

enoon"You think anyone cares about me ... but you?" she whined.

Why did you put a space before the first dot of the ellipses and after the last one? Is that a stylistic thing or a grammatical one?

Thanks.

Enoon · Answer

Snarf"You think anyone with a good head on their shoulders drops by the abode of a psychotic, grouchy old buzzard like me, except for you?!"

That is a little better, but the comma still calls attention to itself to my mind.

SnarfWhy did you put a space before the first dot of the ellipses and after the last one? Is that a stylistic thing or a grammatical one?

That is purely stylistic. There are complex rules for using the ellipsis that I never bother with unless I'm working under stricture. As a matter of fact, those three dots are not an ellipsis, which has thin spaces between the dots. I treat an ellipsis like it is a word for spacing and punctuation.

Snarf · Answer

Very interesting stuff on all counts. Now let's take two different types of examples regarding "but" and "except":

1. This is how things went every single day except for the last one.

2. Many people have bad habits which are aggravated with punishment but which often pass away on their own if left unnoticed.

From what's been said, I'd say it's smoother to not have a comma before "except" in example one, but, from what I've learned pretty much my entire life, it's grammatically wrong to not have one before "but" in example two, correct?

Thanks.

Enoon · Answer

Snarfit's grammatically wrong to not have one before "but" in example two, correct?

Nope. It's wrong to have one (some people are not so strict about that). A comma before "but" signals that "but" introduces an independent clause, and it does not in your sentence.

Snarf · Answer

enoon Snarfit's grammatically wrong to not have one before "but" in example two, correct?Nope. It's wrong to have one (some people are not so strict about that). A comma before "but" signals that "but" introduces an independent clause, and it does not in your sentence.

Oh, I never knew that rule. I thought you generally just put a comma before "but." Does that apply to "because" as well?

Enoon · Answer

SnarfDoes that apply to "because" as well?

That is a whole nother can of worms it would be better to start a new thread for. But the general rule is to use the comma after a coordinating conjunction joining independent clauses, especially "and" and "but". Also (Strunk), "Two-part sentences of which the second member is introduced by as (in the sense of because), for, or, nor, and while (in the sense of and at the same time) likewise require a comma before the conjunction."

Snarf · Answer

So, in those cases, it doesn't matter if it's conjoining an independent clause or not, or are you still speaking of independent clauses? For example:

The judge rubbed his eyes while the courtroom remained loud with commotion.

In that sentence, I would say it's fluid and fine without any comma before "while."

Enoon · Answer

SnarfSo, in those cases, it doesn't matter if it's conjoining an independent clause or not, or are you still speaking of independent clauses?

That's what he means by "two-part" sentences—independent clauses. Read the whole page. That is a sort of bible of style.

SnarfThe judge rubbed his eyes while the courtroom remained loud with commotion. In that sentence, I would say it's fluid and fine without any comma before "while."

Do what you want. But people like me will dismiss your writing as illiterate if you use commas indiscriminately. I will try one more time: the comma is not stage direction or musical notation, especially in non-fiction prose. It is a mechanical device with rigid conventions for its use that are the heart and soul of typography. Its uses are not a matter of opinion but of long-standing editorial convention. If you sprinkle commas in wherever your whim dictates, the reader will be forever tripping over them, much to his irritation, and he will miss the obligatory ones, thinking you sloppy and untutored, at best.

Snarf · Answer

enoonDo what you want. But people like me will dismiss your writing as illiterate if you use commas indiscriminately.

No, I was saying I would not put a comma before "while" in that example I gave, not that I would put one, since "while" is starting off a dependent clause in that example, not an independent one.

Commas before "except" and "but"

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