comma/restrictive/appostion

Question

In the sentence &lt;As one of the main artists of the group, Hua Jiming had graduated&gt; , I believe there should be no comma after group because it is restrictive? Please advise.

BillJ · Accepted Answer

It's non-restrictive, so there should be a comma. It's not a case of apposition, but a preposition phrase acting as a supplement to "Hua Jiming". Because supplements are not integrated into the structure, they are always non-restrictive.

BillJ

Anonymous · Answer

Hello, Anonymous:

Your question has really intrigued me, for "as" is my second favorite word (after "really").

May I gently tell you that I cannot understand the relationship of the two parts of your sentence. The first part says "As one of the main artists of the group," and the second part says "Hua Jiming had graduated." With the greatest respect, there does not seem to be a relationship between the two ideas.

I was just wondering: Do you wish to state the idea that when Hua Jiming graduated, he had by then become one of the main artists of the group? Let's say that he started college in 2004. At that time, he was NOT one of the main artists. Then let's say that he became one of the main artists in 2007. So when he graduated in 2008, he was by then one of the main artists.

Is that the idea that you wish to convey? IF it is, I think that your sentence should read:

Hua Jiming had graduated as one of the main artists of the group. (No comma)

Could you clarify the situation? Thanks.

Henry74 · Answer

I'm also intrigued by the sentence, but for a different reason than James's. I've always struggled with punctuation in English.
I think I understand the concept of restriction (or should I say 'restrictiveness'?), e.g.

The keys that are on the table are mine
The keys, which are on the table, are mine

But how does this relate to the sentence in question? How would the clause starting with As be if it was restrictive, and how would this affect the comma?

Thank you.
H.

Anonymous · Answer

You say that you "have always struggled with punctuation." Yet I notice that you wrote "James's." I am pretty sure that most Americans would write it as James' -- which is "wrong," but very popular because most people feel that using the "s" two times is unnecessary. Nevertheless, I congratulate you on following the rule. I believe that The New York Times is one of the very few American newspapers that still follow that "rule."

Like you, I am eagerly hoping for some comments from the thread starter.

Henry74 · Answer

James MYet I notice that you wrote "James's." I am pretty sure that most Americans would write it as James' -- which is "wrong,"

Yes, I've noticed that the use of a second 's' has been disappearing when the noun, albeit singular, already ends with an 's'. Most people I know would omit it. As a non-native speaker, I think I'll stick to the rule, at least for the time being.
Besides, more importantly, wouldn't the omission create a hiatus between written and spoken English? It seems to me that if you were to utter that, you would have to make the second 's' heard, or you would simply sound ungrammatical. So you'll have a sentence that reads grammatically different than the way it's written.

H.

Anonymous · Answer

Great comments.

In spoken English, one "should" say "Jameses house"

But I think that a lot of Americans just say "James house."

As someone once said, if you pronounce it as "James house," then -- theoretically -- that means that the man's name is "Jame."

(Please pardon my delay in answering you. Although I am registered, my computer cannot receive the verification email. So I am subjected to the delay of moderation.)

BillJ · Answer

BillJHenry74'm also intrigued by the sentence, but for a different reason than James's. I've always struggled with punctuation in English.I think I understand the concept of restriction (or should I say 'restrictiveness'?), e.g.The keys that are on the table are mineThe keys, which are on the table, are mineBut how does this relate to the sentence in question? How would the clause starting with As be if it was restrictive, and how would this affect the comma?

The OP's sentence was very simple indeed, though not perhaps the most informative. Nevertheless, we have to assume they wanted advice on it as it was written. To recap on restriction and punctuation:

We use the term 'restrictive' when it's necessary to restrict the reference (identity) of the head noun. In your first example we have a relative clause tightly integrated into the noun phrase, an indispensable part of it. There may well be other keys lying around, but they're not necessarily yours, so making it restrictive tells us that it's only the "keys" on the table that are yours. It's simply because it's integrated that commas are not required. And in speech, the clause would not be set apart by a pause.

In your second example, the clause is a loosely attached interruption of the sentence making a separate and omissible extra entailment, hence the use of commas to set it off. It does no more than make an assertion that the keys in question are yours, and by the way, they happen to be on the table. In speech, the clause would be set apart by a slight pause.

The same distinction applies to the OP's example; the preposition phrase is non-restrictive just like your non-restrictive relative example. It's not integrated into the structure, and it's clearly omissible without affecting the noun's identity. If we discard it, we still know that it was Hua Jiming that graduated, thus it's semantically non-restrictive. In other words, it just adds some additional optional information about Hua Jiming, and that's why it's set off with a comma. In speech the phrase would be set apart by a slight pause.

My guess is that the sentence goes on something like this: "As one of the main artists of the group, Hua Jiming had graduated at such-and-such a university"; in which case there is no possibility of construing the prep phrase as restrictive.

BillJ

comma/restrictive/appostion

Top answer

Get the Weekly English Kit 📬

Related Questions