comma before 'when'? is it correct?

Question

That fight comes in 10 days, when Lesnar takes on former UFC heavyweight champ Frank Mir in the co-main event of UFC 81.

Yoong Liat · Accepted Answer

Futurehuman11That fight comes in 10 days, when Lesnar takes on former UFC heavyweight champ Frank Mir in the co-main event of UFC 81.

I don't think a comma is required.

Futurehuman11 · Answer

An explanation would be helpful.

Marius Hancu · Answer

I think you need one. What comes after "when" is a parenthesis, a secondary thought, which gives details about the fight.

Yoong Liat · Answer

I think the comma serves no purpose. The following sentences show that no comma is needed unless 'When' starts the sentence.

I'll come when I've done the winding up.

I was about to leave when the telephone rang.

When possible, we take patients to the theatre.

(Times-Chambers Essential English Dictionary)

BarbaraPA · Answer

Hi Yoong Liat,

Usually I agree with you completely, but the situations you write about above are not parallel to the original poster.

I'll come when I've done the winding up. This isn't the same as I'll come at 2, when I should have finished the [whatever winding up is].

In the original post, it names a time - in 10 days. The rest of the sentence gives more information about that happens at that 10-day point.

I'm looking forward to the day I turn 18, when I can finally vote.
I'll be there at 3, when school lets out.

Yoong Liat · Answer

Hi Barbara

I agree with your explanation.

Best wishes.

Carson21 · Answer

Futurehuman11That fight comes in 10 days, when Lesnar takes on former UFC heavyweight champ Frank Mir in the co-main event of UFC 81.

This is similar to the case of the second clause renaming the first.

My teacher, Mrs. Smith, is the first English teacher I've had that didn't use 'is' with a plural subject!

We renamed "my teacher", so we use a comma.

... 10 days, when Lesnar...

This time, rather than re-naming (or rather, re-specifying) a person or object, we're renaming a time frame.

I must comment, however, on the odd grammar of the first clause. "That fight comes in 10 days..." sound wierd to me. If I were to write that whole sentence, it'd look like this:

Lesnar takes on former UFC heavyweight champ Frank Mir in UFC 81 in ten days! or Ten days from now, Lesnar takes on ...

Unless there's a context this sentence was pulled out of?

Anonymous · Answer

I do not believe a comma is needed because "when Lesnar takes on former UFC heavyweight champ Frank Mir..." is an adverbial phrase, and adverbial phrases shouldn't be separated from the verb (comes) they modify by a comma.

Anonymous · Answer

No comma; an adverbial phrase specifying a time is ordinarily restrictive.

The analysis requires recognizing that the when phrase is a restrictive adverbial modifying the verb come. The alternative that should be rejected is that of its being a free modifier. It's not a free modifier because it can't be moved to the front of the sentence.

Since it is not a free modifier, you shouldn't use the entire remaining string as the linguistic entity that's modified by the when clause: you must ignore the additional information conveyed by "in ten days," when you decide whether the clause is restrictive.

(Notice that above, a comma does precede "when." That's because the sense of "when" invoked there is contingency rather than time.)

A simple way to make the point is that the phrase "in ten days" is also an adverbial, and you could reverse the order of the in phrase and the when clause. There's no reason to call the first one the restrictive modifier and the other nonrestrictive. They're each restrictive adverbials separately, which is what counts.

Mister Micawber · Answer

you must ignore the additional information conveyed by "in ten days" when you decide whether the clause is restrictive.-- This seems quite restrictive to me: it restricts the conditions of the decision-making: ergo, no comma before 'when'.

comma before 'when'? is it correct?

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