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Zach Boyer Posted 12 years ago
Grammar

Come or Comes?

OK, so I have this sentence. This is it: "What is really interesting is the way this group of pesky critters and rodents come/comes within range of …" The sentence goes on, but that's the part I'm stuck on. I know it should be "come" if you're going off of "critters and rodents" and I know it should be "comes" if you're going off of "group" But which one is it going off of? Excuse the brain-freeze. Thanks!
  

Top answer

Welcome to English Forums, Zach! It is a puzzle, isn't it? First, the prepositional phrase ("of pesky critters and rodents ") should not be confused with the subject of the sentence.

— AlpheccaStars

  • Welcome to English Forums, Zach!
  • It is a puzzle, isn't it?
  • First, the prepositional phrase ("of pesky critters and rodents ") should not be confused with the subject of the sentence.
  • " American English treats these nouns as singular (there are exceptions, though).
  • What is really interesting is the way this group comes within range of …" British English can consider these collective nouns as either singular or plural, depending on if you interpret them as multiple individuals, or a single collective.
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8 Answers
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Welcome to English Forums, Zach!

It is a puzzle, isn't it?
First, the prepositional phrase ("of pesky critters and rodents ") should not be confused with the subject of the sentence.

The subject is "group" which is a collective noun, like "company", "team" or "family."
American English treats these nouns as singular (there are exceptions, though).
What is really
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Thanks! So you're basically saying the subject is group and it should be "comes," right? And if I changed the word to "herd" instead of "group," would everything you said still apply?
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Zach BoyerAnd if I changed the word to "herd" instead of "group," would everything you said still apply?
Yes, but a herd is seldom thought of as individual members, as in "herd mentality."

So "herd" in the singular would almost always take a singular verb:

The herd (of buffalo; of cattle; of horses) is stampeding towards the cli
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OK, you're right, forget herd. What about "horde," though? That would still use "comes," right? Thanks! —Zach
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AlpheccaStarsThe subject is "group" which is a collective noun, like "company", "team" or "family."American English treats these nouns as singular (there are exceptions, though).
Hmmm, I remember learning in these hallowed halls (from GG, I believe) that notional concord applied particularly to "group" in AmE.
I don't find anything in your reference about
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Zach BoyerOK, you're right, forget herd. What about "horde," though? That would still use "comes," right? Thanks! —Zach
Horde is so rare, that there is no convention.
The Golden Horde was notorious for raping and pillaging.

Are you going to ask about every collective noun in the lexicon?
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No, no, let me explain … I thought I was going to use "herd" instead of "group" for my actual sentence … that's why I asked about herd … then w/ the new information I found out … about herd not being used to describe individual members … I thought I couldn't use it to describe the "pesky critters and rodents." So I just wanted to double-check "horde" would be OK instead. So I'm not like randomly a
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Zach Boyer"What is really interesting is the way this horde of pesky critters and rodents comes within range of …"
That's fine.
Horde is a more interesting word than "group." It contains the idea of destruction and mayhem, and increasing in numbers..
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