Clause elements revisited

Question

HiIt's been a while since I last posted a question of this sort but something's got me thinkig today:I made her sad.I (S) made (V) her (Direct Object) sad (Object Complement).I made her cry.I (S) made (V) her (Direct Object) cry (???? I don't think verbs can be complements, right? What might it be, then?).Another thing - what clause elements do we have in:The girl is a student at a large university.I have two possible answers:The girl (S) is (V) a student (Subject Complement) at a large university (A).The girl (S) is (V) a student at a large university (Subject Complement).Which do you prefer and why?

English 1b3 · Accepted Answer

MichalS
I made her cry.

I (S) made (V) her (Direct Object) cry (?? I don't think verbs can be complements, right? What might it be, then?).

Some verbs often are followed by an object and then the bare infinitive:

It is common with verbs of the senses:

I heard her cry

I saw her cry

Often the ing form will be used to emphasize one witnessing the crying for a longer period of time.

MichalS
The girl (S) is (V) a student (Subject Complement) at a large university (A).

The girl (S) is (V) a student at a large university (Subject Complement).

I would say it is the first option of yours.

BillJ · Answer

MichalS
I made her sad.

I (S) made (V) her (Direct Object) sad (Object Complement).
I made her cry.

I (S) made (V) her (Direct Object) cry (?? I don't think verbs can be complements, right? What might it be, then?).

Another thing - what clause elements do we have in:

The girl is a student at a large university.

I have two possible answers:

The girl (S) is (V) a student (Subject Complement) at a large university (A).

The girl (S) is (V) a student at a large university (Subject Complement).

Which do you prefer and why?

Hi,

I agree with your analysis here:

I (S) made (V) her (O) sad (C), where 'sad' is an adjective.

But in the sentence 'I made her cry', O is not 'her' but the nonfinite subordinate clause 'her cry'. The object clause is then analysed 'her'=sub, 'cry'=verb:

Main clause: I (S) made (V) [her cry] (O)

Object clause: her (S) cry (V)

(If memory serves, 'her' is called a 'raised object' here, where the subject of the subordinate clause has been turned into the object of the main clause).

In your other sentence, your second analysis is correct:

The girl (S) is (V) a student at a large university (C)

The complement is the noun phrase 'a student at a large university' in which 'a student' is the head, and 'at a large university' is a prepositional phrase postmodifying 'a student'. I prefer to analyse 'at a large uni.' as a noun modifier (rather than A) because it describes where she is a student, not just where she is. (cf 'the girl - is - at a large university' = SVA)

Does that help?

BillJ

MichalS · Answer

Hi guys,

Thanks so much for answering. You're great!

BillJ,

I totally agree with your analysis of my "I made her cry" sentence. It's been 4 years since I had my descriptive grammar course and I sheer forgot how to account for such instances. Thank you for refreshing my memory on that! Right on!!! [Y]

BillJI prefer to analyse 'at a large uni.' as a noun modifier (rather than A) because it describes where she is a student, not where she is. (cf 'the girl - is - at a large university' = SVA)

Bill, I don't agree that the SVCA analysis would make A "at a large university" describe "where she is" (like you say) but rather "where she is a student", which for you is the case with the SVC analysis. So in my opinion, A defines the whole SVC clause, not only SV.

A: The girl is a student.
B: Where?
A: At a large university. I don't remember which one.

Similarly, I think that in your SVC analysis, C would define "who she is" as there is only SV before the complement.

The girl (S) is (V) a student at a large university (C).

A: Who is the girl?
B: She is a student at a large university.

I hope I made myself clear by that. Tell me please if you agree with my assessment above or not. Then, we'll try to work something out and possibly arrive at a conclusion

BillJDoes that help?

You have no idea how much. Thank you!

Michal

BillJ · Answer

MichalS
Bill, I don't agree that the SVCA analysis would make A "at a large university" describe "where she is" (like you say) but rather "where she is a student", which for you is the case with the SVC analysis. So in my opinion, A defines the whole SVC clause, not only SV.

Hi Michal

To be honest, I was actually undecided between SVA and SVCA, but my preference was for the former because it retained the close semantic relationship between 'a student' and 'at a large university', which I saw as acting as a single unit. Prepositional phrases can serve as a postmodifier in a noun phrase e.g. 'the train at platform 3', 'the car in the garage' and so on, and I saw 'at a large Uni' as being just that, i.e. a postmodifier of 'a student' rather than a separate clause element.

Nevertheless, your argument is persuasive, so I'll dust off my old grammar books to see if I can find a definitive answer and post another reply shortly.

Incidentally, I remember reading once that there are only seven basic clause types: S+V, S+V+O, S+V+C, S+V+A, S+V+O+O, S+V+O+C and S+V+O+A. Whether the absence of SVCA is significant or not, I'm not sure.

With good wishes

BillJ

MichalS · Answer

BillJIncidentally, I remember reading once that there are only seven basic clause types: S+V, S+V+O, S+V+C, S+V+A, S+V+O+O, S+V+O+C and S+V+O+A. Whether the absence of SVCA is significant or not, I'm not sure.

Hi Bill,

In my grammar book (Longman Grammar of Spoken and Written English), in a chapter about clause types there is no mention of SVCA either, yet I don't think its absence is significant. An adverbialis very often an optional constituent in a clause and sometimes you don't have to have it at all, but you can also have an infinite number of them. That's probably why there's no mention of different clause types, as that would mean extending the list greatly.

What's more, if SVCA was impossible, it would be very hard to account for sentences like the one below, as it doesn't seem very plausible to see "sad yesterday" as one unit, which however is entirely reasonable in your examples: 'the train at platform 3', 'the car in the garage', which may be so (I've just realised) because these phrases contain defining relative clauses, that is to say, the PP's ("at platform 3" and "in the garage") define the NP's ("the train" and "the car") and that may be why they are easy to be seen as one unit.

I was sad yesterday.
I (S) was (V) sad (C) yesterday (A).
~~I (S) was (V) sad yesterday (C).~~

BillJI'll dust off my old grammar books to see if I can find a definitive answer and post another reply shortly.

Ok! I'll be waiting. Thank you.

Michal

BillJ · Answer

Hello Michal

1. 'The girl is a student at a large university" is analysed as SVA, as I said, because the at-phrase restrictively defines 'student'. I can't read a meaning in which the at-phrase is independently adverbial. If it were, it would have to be mobile, but one can't say 'At a large university, the girl is a student'.

2. 'I was sad yesterday' is analysed as SVCA, because the A 'yesterday' is mobile: 'Yesterday I was ill'.

The reason that SVCA is not shown in grammar books as a basic clause type is that in all such cases the A is optional. Remember, though, that the A in SVOA is the obligatory A that follows verbs like 'put': 'I put the car in the garage'.

3. In examples such as 'the train at platform 3' and 'the car in the garage', these are NOT relatives, but phrases. This kind of analysis is very much based on the surface structure of the sentence. If you adopted a Chomskyan approach, then of course you could see these as reduced or elliptical clauses.

I hope that helps.

BillJ

BillJ · Answer

BillJ'The girl is a student at a large university" is analysed as SVA

Michal

Sorry, I made a typo there. I meant to say SVC.

The girl (S) is (V) a student at a large university (C).

BillJ

Clause elements revisited

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