Choice of pronouns 'You' and 'I'

Question

Which is correct, "Dad took my brother and I to the zoo." or   "Dad took my brother and me to the zoo."

Dimsumexpress · Accepted Answer

Look at it this way:
"Dad took me to the zoo."

"Dad took my brother to the zoo."

Both are object in this sentence. So "me" is correct.

BaldKingOfFrance · Answer

I'll stir the pot on this a little bit. Maybe there'll be intersting discussion. Consider these sentences:

(1) Jennifer is going to the movies.
(2) Susan is going to to the movies.

(3) Jennifer and Susan are going to the movies.

The nouns Jennifer and Susan are both singular, yet the verb in (3) is plural. The grammatical number of these nouns is different when alone and when conjoined. When used alone, they are singular, when glued together by and they are plural.

dimsumexpress, you say we can figure out the case of a noun by looking at in isolation. I just showed that grammatical number changes in isolation and with a conjuction. What makes you so sure about case marking in conjuctions? Why doesn't it work like number marking?

Dimsumexpress · Answer

BaldKingOfFranceWhat makes you so sure about case marking in conjuctions? Why doesn't it work like number marking?

BaldKingOfFrance,
That sounds like a challenging question to me! Well, I believe the gramma I've learned is correct. Unless a grammarian points otherwise.

Let's go back and refreah. The original sentence was: "Dad took my brother and I to the zoo."
The question was: is it "me" or "I"?

My dad - is the subject. My brother and me - are both objects, alone and together, meaning a compound object.
Your examples are correct because there are no object(s) in them
(1) Jennifer is going to the movies.

(2) Susan is going to to the movies.

(3) Jennifer and Susan are going to the movies.

Here, Jennifer and Susan are both subjects in #1 and #2, but a compound subject on # 3.
Same as " pizza and ice cream are my favorite junk foods. "
If you still have questions: I suggest that you take a look at this website.

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/between-you-and-me.aspx

BaldKingOfFrance · Answer

I think was misunderstood. I'll rephrase the question: why is it that Case is unaffected by conjunction, but Number is affected by conjuction? [Jennifer and Susan] is a compound subject which takes verb agreement that neither of the components takes individually. So perhaps [my brother and I] is a correct compound object which takes a Case that neither of the components takes individually.

BarbaraPA · Answer

You are talking about apples and oranges. Are you really confused or are you just looking to, as you say, stir the pot?

Case describes the role the noun plays in the sentence. There can be one of something, two or something, or 101 of something, but if that something (or someone) is the subject, it's still the subject, regardless of number. If it's the object, it's still the object.

Number, by definition, is based on how many. Of course you must change the verb that agrees with the subject when the number changes from singular to plural. But that won't affect whether it's an object or subject.

Dimsumexpress · Answer

BaldKingOfFranceI think was misunderstood. I'll rephrase the question: why is it that Case is unaffected by conjunction, but Number is affected by conjuction? [Jennifer and Susan] is a compound subject which takes verb agreement that neither of the components takes individually. So perhaps [my brother and I] is a correct compound object which takes a Case that neither of the components takes individually.

BaldKingOfFrance,
If you believe you are correct, by all means. But the truth is; no, your assumption still remains incorrect. The difference is in being a subjective vs objective pronoun or vise versa. It has nothing to do with the conjunction "and" in the previous examples. Have you checked out the website I suggested. If you have, you should have cleared all your doubts by now.

My brother and I practice soccer every day- Correct compound subject
My dad took my brother and I to the zoo - wrong compound object
Paul, John and I went to a party last night - Cocrrect subjective case.
Paul and John came by to picked up my brother and me to the movie last night- correct objective case.

BaldKingOfFrance · Answer

Grammar GeekAre you really confused or are you just looking to, as you say, stir the pot?

No, I'm not confused. I understand that Standard English uses accusative case in compound objects. I even understand why. I am just stirring things up, and maybe even suggesting why people might make the [brother and I] "mistake" in the first place.

I know the difference between case and number. I'm comparing the effects of conjunction on grammatical marking of case and number. The argument "it would be accusative in isolation" is, in my opinion, a weak one because it implies that you can always isolate something from a conjunction and figure out grammatical properties that way. That fails to work with number - if you isolate "Jennifer" from "Susan and Jennifer" then you would predict a singular verb which is wrong.

Grammar GeekNumber, by definition, is based on how many. Of course you must change the verb that agrees with the subject when the number changes from singular to plural. But that won't affect whether it's an object or subject.

But in compound subjects, there is NO change to plural in the nouns. I'll give a different example because proper nouns never inflect for number anyway so my earlier sentence won't work here.

[A dog and a cat] are running through the house.

Neither of the nouns are marked for plurality, and neither is the noun phrase as a whole. I'm talking strictly syntax here, not semantics. Obviously we understand that one and one is two, hence the plural, but there is no grammatical marking of that plurality on the subject.

So an entire noun phrase is understood as plural without any overt indication of plural on any member of that noun phrase. In the same way, it seems completely reasonable to me that an entire noun phrase is understood as the object without overt marking of case on any of the members of that noun phrase.

Dimsumexpress · Answer

From your first post, your comments seemed to suggest that you and I in the original question was ok. You never brought up the "subject case" and "objective case" until my reply.  Whatever!

Khoff · Answer

BaldKingOfFranceI'll rephrase the question: why is it that Case is unaffected by conjunction, but Number is affected by conjuction?

Number is by its very nature affected by conjunction. When you add a single thing to another single thing, they cease being single. A single person cannot be plural; an enumerated list of people cannot be singular. By contrast, individuals can be either subjects or objects, and so can groups.
edited to add: I replied before reading all the other replies -- turns out I'm just repeating what Grammar Geek already said.

BarbaraPA · Answer

Always a pleasure to be on the same team!

Choice of pronouns 'You' and 'I'

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