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Usenet Posted 23 years ago
Usage
Change of pronunciation of plural vs singular nouns
Is there any reason why "posh" people tend to change the way they pronounce nouns ending in the "ee" sound when they pluralise them? I dislike it, as I think it is stuck up, but a lot of people (mainly older Southerners) change the vowel from an "ee" sound into an "i" (bit) sound, e.g. "battery" -> "batteries" is pronounced "batteree" -> "batteriz" by these people.
We were never taught to do that, I simply add the S and retain the original pronunciation, "battereez". Why do some people do this? It is even so extreme as to render the word "coffees" (clearly designed to be pronounced as it is spelt) as "coffiz" which, to me, looks grossly incorrect.
An example is in Countdown, where a contestant made up the word "harpies", and Richard Whiteley did not understand what he was saying. Richard said it to himself about three times, and converted it to his "harpiz" form, then realised what it meant. This all seems very silly to me.
Where did this horrible practice originate, and what caused it?
Cheers,
Matt
We were never taught to do that, I simply add the S and retain the original pronunciation, "battereez". Why do some people do this? It is even so extreme as to render the word "coffees" (clearly designed to be pronounced as it is spelt) as "coffiz" which, to me, looks grossly incorrect.
An example is in Countdown, where a contestant made up the word "harpies", and Richard Whiteley did not understand what he was saying. Richard said it to himself about three times, and converted it to his "harpiz" form, then realised what it meant. This all seems very silly to me.
Where did this horrible practice originate, and what caused it?
Cheers,
Matt
Top answer
[nq:1]Is there any reason why "posh" people tend to change the way theypronounce nouns ending in the "ee" sound when ... what it meant. This all seems very silly to me.
- [nq:1]Is there any reason why "posh" people tend to change the way theypronounce nouns ending in the "ee" sound when ...
- what it meant.
- This all seems very silly to me.
- [/nq] Many people (and this is a northern, not a southern, feature, though it's also a feature of old-fashioned RP) pronounce these final sounds with the (I) of "pit" rather than the tense (i) of "beat".
- Although the two vowels of "city" are not quite the same for me, I feel they're closer to being the same than the two vowels of "easy" are.
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46 Answers
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[nq:1]Is there any reason why "posh" people tend to change the way theypronounce nouns ending in the "ee" sound when ... what it meant. This all seems very silly to me. Where did this horrible practice originate, and what caused it?[/nq]
Many people (and this is a northern, not a southern, feature, though it's also a feature of old-fashioned RP) pronounce these final sounds with the (I) of "p
Many people (and this is a northern, not a southern, feature, though it's also a feature of old-fashioned RP) pronounce these final sounds with the (I) of "p
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[nq:2]Is there any reason why "posh" people tend to change the way they[/nq]
No idea why OE does this. I've experimented with the wrap settings, at 72, 76 and 80, and I can't get it to stop wrapping like this. Never mind.
[nq:1]Many people (and this is a northern, not a southern, feature, though it's also a feature of old-fashioned RP) pronounce ... quite the same for me, I feel they're cl
No idea why OE does this. I've experimented with the wrap settings, at 72, 76 and 80, and I can't get it to stop wrapping like this. Never mind.
[nq:1]Many people (and this is a northern, not a southern, feature, though it's also a feature of old-fashioned RP) pronounce ... quite the same for me, I feel they're cl
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[nq:1]Is there any reason why "posh" people tend to change the way they pronounce nouns ending in the "ee" sound ... an "ee" sound into an "i" (bit) sound, e.g. "battery" -> "batteries" is pronounced "batteree" -> "batteriz" by these people.[/nq]
Posh? I may be an older Southerner but I'm very far from posh and I say "batteriz". Sounds quite normal to me.
[nq:1]We were never taught t
Posh? I may be an older Southerner but I'm very far from posh and I say "batteriz". Sounds quite normal to me.
[nq:1]We were never taught t
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(Regarding using the short-i (I) in plurals like "harpies" and "batteries":)
[nq:1]Where did this horrible practice originate, and what caused it?[/nq]
That is the original pronunciation. The pronunciation with (i) ("ee") is a modern innovation.
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
[nq:1]Where did this horrible practice originate, and what caused it?[/nq]
That is the original pronunciation. The pronunciation with (i) ("ee") is a modern innovation.
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
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Much closer for me, too, and identical for some the Nu Salford pronunciation of "City" is (sI?I). (And in traditional Lancashire, final /i/ is as often as open as /e/).
[nq:1]So "battery", for me, is ('batSrI) (yes, two syllables, with a "ch"-like sound in the middle).[/nq]
Nu Salford "assault and battery": (@,sA.l? @n 'ba?rI) Owd Owdham: (@,sA.lt @n 'batSre)
Ross Howard
[nq:1]So "battery", for me, is ('batSrI) (yes, two syllables, with a "ch"-like sound in the middle).[/nq]
Nu Salford "assault and battery": (@,sA.l? @n 'ba?rI) Owd Owdham: (@,sA.lt @n 'batSre)
Ross Howard
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[nq:1]Is there any reason why "posh" people tend to change the way they pronounce nouns ending in the "ee" sound ... an "ee" sound into an "i" (bit) sound, e.g. "battery" -> "batteries" is pronounced "batteree" -> "batteriz" by these people.[/nq]
I've never heard that as a characteristic of Southern speech. Which part of the South? Georgia? Alabama? The Carolinas?
Evan Kirshenba
I've never heard that as a characteristic of Southern speech. Which part of the South? Georgia? Alabama? The Carolinas?
Evan Kirshenba
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[nq:2]Is there any reason why "posh" people tend to change ... "battery" -> "batteries" is pronounced"batteree" -> "batteriz" by these people.[/nq]
[nq:1]I've never heard that as a characteristic of Southern speech. Which part of the South? Georgia? Alabama? The Carolinas?[/nq]
OK, OK, but Americans often do the same thing.
Jonathan
[nq:1]I've never heard that as a characteristic of Southern speech. Which part of the South? Georgia? Alabama? The Carolinas?[/nq]
OK, OK, but Americans often do the same thing.
Jonathan
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[nq:1]Have you noticed Brummies using an (@I)-like diphthong (which can sound almost like "oy") in these endings?[/nq]
Say, do any of them also use that diphthong for a1aRP /V":/?
Say, do any of them also use that diphthong for a1aRP /V":/?
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[nq:2]Have you noticed Brummies using an (@I)-like diphthong (which can sound almost like "oy") in these endings?[/nq]
[nq:1]Say, do any of them also use that diphthong for a1aRP /V":/?[/nq]
Oy wouldn't sye that thye doe. It's more loike a longg "barred oi" sort of vowel, e.g. (bi"mINg@m).
Oy downt think the Nyoe York accint cooms from Beermingum.
Jonathan
(PS: apologies
[nq:1]Say, do any of them also use that diphthong for a1aRP /V":/?[/nq]
Oy wouldn't sye that thye doe. It's more loike a longg "barred oi" sort of vowel, e.g. (bi"mINg@m).
Oy downt think the Nyoe York accint cooms from Beermingum.
Jonathan
(PS: apologies
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[nq:1]I "batteree"[/nq]
[nq:2]I've never heard that as a characteristic of Southern speech. Which part of the South? Georgia? Alabama? The Carolinas?[/nq]
[nq:1]OK, OK, but Americans often do the same thing.[/nq]
Actually the use of /I/ rather than /i/ for -y *is* characteristic of Southern US speech. See, e.g., Jimmy (dZImI) Carter. Non-Southern Americans will represent this pronuncia
[nq:2]I've never heard that as a characteristic of Southern speech. Which part of the South? Georgia? Alabama? The Carolinas?[/nq]
[nq:1]OK, OK, but Americans often do the same thing.[/nq]
Actually the use of /I/ rather than /i/ for -y *is* characteristic of Southern US speech. See, e.g., Jimmy (dZImI) Carter. Non-Southern Americans will represent this pronuncia
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