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Usenet Posted 17 years ago
Usage
'centring'
I've long been familiar with the UK spellings 'centre' and 'theatre' as compared with US 'center' and 'theater,' but I recently encountered (in a book by a British author) the spelling 'centring' for the first time. I first assumed that it was a typo for 'centering,' but I looked in my big blue British dictionary and found that the verb 'centre' does in fact have the participle 'centring' in the UK.
UK pronunciation being unrhotic, 'centre' is pronounced 'sent@,' where @ stands for the sound of 'o' in 'bacon.' The spelling 'centre' makes me want to say 'sentr@,' and that feeling is reinforced by seeing 'centring' pronounced 'sentring.'
There are lots of words ending in '-er' in a British dictionary that are pronounced as they are spelled. I wonder what quirk of language evolution led to the spellings 'centre' and 'theatre' having the last two letters apparently reversed.
Why 'renter' but 'centre'? If 'centre,' why not 'carpentre' instead of 'carpenter'? If 'theatre,' why not 'debatre' instead of 'debater'?
Egbert White, > "I love Americans, but not when they try Planet Earth > to talk French. What a blessing it is that
UK pronunciation being unrhotic, 'centre' is pronounced 'sent@,' where @ stands for the sound of 'o' in 'bacon.' The spelling 'centre' makes me want to say 'sentr@,' and that feeling is reinforced by seeing 'centring' pronounced 'sentring.'
There are lots of words ending in '-er' in a British dictionary that are pronounced as they are spelled. I wonder what quirk of language evolution led to the spellings 'centre' and 'theatre' having the last two letters apparently reversed.
Why 'renter' but 'centre'? If 'centre,' why not 'carpentre' instead of 'carpenter'? If 'theatre,' why not 'debatre' instead of 'debater'?
Egbert White, > "I love Americans, but not when they try Planet Earth > to talk French. What a blessing it is that
Top answer
[nq:1]Why 'renter' but 'centre'? If 'centre,' why not 'carpentre' instead of 'carpenter'? ), or debates.
- [nq:1]Why 'renter' but 'centre'?
- If 'centre,' why not 'carpentre' instead of 'carpenter'?
- ), or debates.
- See also cooper, archer, walker, mariner, dancer, etc.
- The -er can also mean "that which" as in pusher, toaster, etc.
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59 Answers
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[nq:1]Why 'renter' but 'centre'? If 'centre,' why not 'carpentre' instead of 'carpenter'? If 'theatre,' why not 'debatre' instead of 'debater'?[/nq]
In all your examples, -er always means "one who" rents, carpents (?), or debates. See also cooper, archer, walker, mariner, dancer, etc. The -er can also mean "that which" as in pusher, toaster, etc.
As for how the -re version arose for n
In all your examples, -er always means "one who" rents, carpents (?), or debates. See also cooper, archer, walker, mariner, dancer, etc. The -er can also mean "that which" as in pusher, toaster, etc.
As for how the -re version arose for n
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[nq:1]Why 'renter' but 'centre'? If 'centre,' why not 'carpentre' instead of 'carpenter'? If 'theatre,' why not 'debatre' instead of 'debater'?[/nq]
I see your problem, but not your logic:
It's about word origins. In English English, rent (vb) may lead to 'renter' (but not often!), debate (vb) may lead to debater.
Centre, spectre, (etc) and theatre are not directly derived from ve
I see your problem, but not your logic:
It's about word origins. In English English, rent (vb) may lead to 'renter' (but not often!), debate (vb) may lead to debater.
Centre, spectre, (etc) and theatre are not directly derived from ve
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[nq:1]As for how the -re version arose for non-one-who-or-that-which words, someone from the eastern shore will have to respond.[/nq]
The eastern shore of the Aegean Sea, that is. Greek -ron became Latin -rum, which in turn became French -re.
¬R
The eastern shore of the Aegean Sea, that is. Greek -ron became Latin -rum, which in turn became French -re.
¬R
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[nq:2]Why 'renter' but 'centre'? If 'centre,' why not 'carpentre' instead of 'carpenter'? If 'theatre,' why not 'debatre' instead of 'debater'?[/nq]
[nq:1]I see your problem, but not your logic: It's about word origins. In English English, rent (vb) may lead to ... Centre, spectre, (etc) and theatre are not directly derived from verbs, so there's no reason they should follow that rule.[/nq]
[nq:1]I see your problem, but not your logic: It's about word origins. In English English, rent (vb) may lead to ... Centre, spectre, (etc) and theatre are not directly derived from verbs, so there's no reason they should follow that rule.[/nq]
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[nq:1]The eastern shore of the Aegean Sea, that is.[/nq]
Oops, too much second-guessing: I meant Adriatic.
¬R "MY FLIEGENDE HOLLÄNDER WON'T STOP BLEEEEEEING!" Poot Rootbeer
Oops, too much second-guessing: I meant Adriatic.
¬R "MY FLIEGENDE HOLLÄNDER WON'T STOP BLEEEEEEING!" Poot Rootbeer
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[nq:1]Another way to say what you're saying is to say that 'renter' is an agent-noun, while 'centre' is not. But ... don't doubt the '-tre' thing can be explained with etymology, but your way of doing so seems to be faulty.[/nq]
In what way?
You've agreed (I think), that debater and centre may have different origins, and thus different reasons for their spelling.
Why is it so hard to a
In what way?
You've agreed (I think), that debater and centre may have different origins, and thus different reasons for their spelling.
Why is it so hard to a
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[nq:2]Another way to say what you're saying is to say ... but your way of doing so seems to be faulty.[/nq]
[nq:1]In what way?[/nq]
You said earlier
[nq:1]It's about word origins. In English English, rent (vb) may lead to 'renter' (but not often!), debate (vb) may lead to debater. Centre, spectre, (etc) and theatre are not directly derived from verbs, so there's no reason they should f
[nq:1]In what way?[/nq]
You said earlier
[nq:1]It's about word origins. In English English, rent (vb) may lead to 'renter' (but not often!), debate (vb) may lead to debater. Centre, spectre, (etc) and theatre are not directly derived from verbs, so there's no reason they should f
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[nq:2]Why 'renter' but 'centre'? If 'centre,' why not 'carpentre' instead of 'carpenter'? If 'theatre,' why not 'debatre' instead of 'debater'?[/nq]
[nq:1]I see your problem, but not your logic: It's about word origins. In English English, rent (vb) may lead to ... Centre, spectre, (etc) and theatre are not directly derived from verbs, so there's no reason they should follow that rule.[/nq]
[nq:1]I see your problem, but not your logic: It's about word origins. In English English, rent (vb) may lead to ... Centre, spectre, (etc) and theatre are not directly derived from verbs, so there's no reason they should follow that rule.[/nq]
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[nq:1]Can you suggest one reason (other than convenience), why these words should all end the same?[/nq]
Because we don't say "ruh" on the end of the ones we got from French? It's always struck me as ironic that the English so insistently hang onto those remnants of French spelling that Webster was busy discarding while France was our ally against England.
¬R
Because we don't say "ruh" on the end of the ones we got from French? It's always struck me as ironic that the English so insistently hang onto those remnants of French spelling that Webster was busy discarding while France was our ally against England.
¬R
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[nq:1]Centre, spectre and theatre are all lifted directly from the French and spelled in BrE as in French (apart from ignoring the accents in théâtre about the only common English word that sometimes keeps its accent is café).[/nq]
Do I sense a competition coming on?
Fête...
Ian
Do I sense a competition coming on?
Fête...
Ian
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