Catbird's seat

Question

I was sitting on the porch with my son over the weekend, and we heard a Catbird's call. I idly wondered why the Catbird was considered to have such an advantageous seat. My son had never heard the expression, so we came inside and looked it up at: http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20010118

Not much of an explanation. Any theories?
The Catbird, except for some coloring differences, looks much like the Mockingbird. Odd, that two such similar appearing birds make sounds of other creatures.
We also saw an owl later that evening. Briefly, though, since owls fly so silently and you're not aware of them unless you happen to glance that way. The owl lives someone on my lot. I hear him at night, but the owl's sound seems to come from no particular direction. When the Catbird calls, I can follow the sound. Not the owl.

Just musing.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]I was sitting on the porch with my son over the weekend, and we heard a Catbird's call. I idly ... to come from no particular direction. When the Catbird calls, I can follow the sound. Not the owl. Just musing.[/nq]
I had fun researching this one...
From
http://www.word-detective.com/back-k2.html
or http://tinyurl.com/2srhr
Why, look! Up there!
It's a tiny little Barcalounger!
Dear Evan: Can you shed some light on the phrase "to sit in the cat-bird seat"?
(Answer) Onward. As the Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang defines the term, "in the catbird seat" means "in a position of ease."
The catbird is a relative of the mockingbird found in the Southern U.S. and named for its distinctive "mewing" call. Like most birds, catbirds prefer to stay out of reach of potential predators, and thus a "catbird seat" is likely to be a safe, lofty perch above the fray. The phrase almost certainly arose in the South in the 19th century, although its first recorded use in print didn't come until 1942.
"In the catbird seat" first caught the public's eye in a James Thurber short story called "The Catbird Seat" (you can find the story in "The Thurber Carnival"). In the story, a meek accountant is driven to contemplate murdering a fellow employee who won't stop babbling trite catch phrases, including, you guessed it, "in the catbird seat." It seems that the babbler is a (then-Brooklyn) Dodgers fan who has picked up the phrase from the sportscaster Red Barber. In real life, Barber pleaded guilty to popularizing "in the catbird seat," and explained that he, in turn, had picked it up from a man who trounced him in a poker game years before. "Inasmuch as I had paid for the phrase," said Barber, "I began to use it. I popularized it, and Mr. Thurber took it." And, of course, immortalized it.
From
http://www.enotes.com/catbird-seat/
The story chronicles a battle of wills between the fussy Erwin Martin, head of a filing department, and Ulgine Barrows, the firm 's efficiency expert who threatens to bring change into Martin's well-ordered existence. With comic irony, Martin uses his reputation as a meek and pleasant man against the flashy Mrs. Barrows. The character of Martin is typical of what critics have called Thurber's ''Little Man,'' a common working man who is baffled and beaten down by life in United States in the twentieth century.
The title The Catbird Seat derives from the speech patterns of Red Barber, the radio announcer for the Brooklyn Dodgers baseball team in the 1940s. Thurber, a devoted baseball fan, was among those who enjoyed the colorful expressions Barber sprinkled throughout his commentary. As Joey Hart, Martin's assistant explains, sitting in the catbird seat means being in an advantageous position. Although it is Mrs. Barrows who seems strong and bold and powerful, it is Martin who wins in the end.

And from:
http://www.dramatica.com/story/articles/articles/thecatbirdseat.html or http://tinyurl.com/2mezdMrs. Ulgine Barrows: "Her quacking voice and braying laugh . . . . had appalled Mr. Martin instantly, but he hadn't shown it. He had given her his dry hand, a look of studious concentration and a faint smile. 'Well,' she said, looking at the papers on his desk, 'are you lifting the oxcart out of the ditch?' Later: "The faults of the woman as a woman kept chattering on in his mind like an unruly witness. She had, for almost two years now, baited him.

In the halls, in the elevator, even in his own office, into which she romped now and then like a circus horse, she was constantly shouting these silly questions at him. 'Are you lifting the oxcart out of the ditch? Are you tearing up the pea patch? Are you hollering down the rain barrel? Are you scraping around the bottom of the pickle barrel? Are you sitting in the catbird seat?' . . . Mr. Martin dismissed all this with an effort. It had been annoying, it had driven him near to distraction, but he was too solid a man to be moved to murder by anything so childish." (239-40)
By the way...
in looking up "The Catbird Seat," I came across an interesting site...
http://www.cheathouse.com/essay/essay view.php?p essay id=36922 or http://tinyurl.com/2w8xr
...which apparently sells essays to students. I've heard this is done, but this is the first time I've actually seen the "offer."

Maria Conlon

Usenet · Answer

In our last episode,
(Email Removed),
the lovely and talented Tony Cooper
broadcast on alt.usage.english:
[nq:1]I was sitting on the porch with my son over the weekend, and we heard a Catbird's call. I idly ... to come from no particular direction. When the Catbird calls, I can follow the sound. Not the owl. Just musing.[/nq]
This one has been done before. This expression shows up in print in "The Catbird Seat" by James Thurber who attributes to Red Barber. Barber later wrote a memoir Rhubarb in the Catbird Seat . Barber, who seems to have been responsible for introducing the phrase to baseball says (Saturday Review, 1958) it was an expression he learned in penny-ante poker games in Cincinnati.
The meaning of the phrase (in a position of dominance or control) is attributed to the catbird's reputed habit of singing from the highest perch available in an area or to its well-documented behavior of raising an alarm when intruders enter its territory (or both).
The above is found in too many sites discovered by Google to cite. Curiously, a number of sites say "the trail goes cold" after Thurber's story, although the story explicitly credits Barber with the phrase.

Lars Eighner ~~finger for geek code~~ (Email Removed) http://www.io.com/~eighner/ "The very essence of the creative is its novelty, and hence we have no standard by which to judge it." Carl R. Rogers, On Becoming a Person

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I was sitting on the porch with my son over ... I can follow the sound. Not the owl. Just musing.[/nq]
[nq:1]This one has been done before.[/nq]
Well, yes, but hasn't everything?
I'll snip the Thurber/Barber references since they were in the url I posted with the question.
[nq:1]The meaning of the phrase (in a position of dominance or control) is attributed to the catbird's reputed habit of singing from the highest perch available in an area or to its well-documented behavior of raising an alarm when intruders enter its territory (or both).[/nq]
There's the rub. If I say "He's in the cat bird's seat.", I don't mean he's in a position to warn of danger. I don't really see the connection between being able to spot and avoid danger to be a position of control. Control to avoid, perhaps, but that's not how the phrase is used.
If I own a piece of property that is essential for a developer to own in order to complete his project, I am in the catbird's seat. Where is the danger? Where are the alarms a-raising?
On the other hand, when I saw "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid", and the scene where they rode into the canyon hideout that was guarded by sentinels high up on the cliffs, I didn't think those sentinels were "in the Catbird's seat".
I'm not in disagreement with the Thurber/Barber/high perch theory. I'm just wondering if there are other theories that might fit better with the actual use of the phrase.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I was sitting on the porch with my son over the weekend, and we heard a Catbird's call. I idly ... to come from no particular direction. When the Catbird calls, I can follow the sound. Not the owl. Just musing.[/nq]
Some say that it is because the catbird favors perches at the tops of tall trees, with a commanding view and scope for their song to carry far even though that is more characteristic of the (much bolder) mockingbirds.
All the mimic thrushes (catbirds, mockingbirds, thrashers) are accomplished at imitating other birds, animal calls, and human artifacts. I don't know of any theory of how this confers selective advantage on them, but my guess is that it allows them to perpetrate an illusion that their territory is thickly settled and newcomers will find no welcome.

Chris Green

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]All the mimic thrushes (catbirds, mockingbirds, thrashers) are accomplished at imitating other birds, animal calls, and human artifacts. I don't ... that it allows them to perpetrate an illusion that their territory is thickly settled and newcomers will find no welcome.[/nq]
Incidentally, in Massachusetts it is common to encounter road signs that say "THICKLY SETTLED", if I remember rightly. Is this found in any other state or Anglophonic country?

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Incidentally, in Massachusetts it is common to encounter road signs that say "THICKLY SETTLED", if I remember rightly. Is this found in any other state or Anglophonic country?[/nq]
My guess would be that it has to do with some arcane requirement of the traffic laws of Massachusetts, probably imposing a prima facie speed limit. Massachusetts is the kind of place that would erect a sign like that rather than just put up a speed limit sign.
Many years ago a friend moved to Massachusetts. Since she already had a driver's license from another state, she was only had to take an oral test. One of the four or five test items was, "Explain the difference between a Stop sign and a Boulevard Stop sign." That was a stumper, she failed the test, and they had already taken her out-of-state license from her and wouldn't return it, nor would they let her take the test again that day. She had to phone her husband to come and get her.
Answer: In Massachusetts when there is a line of cars at a stop sign, when the first car enters the intersection the next two cars in line are permitted to go also. This rule does not apply if the sign says "Boulevard Stop". The incident occurred over 40 years ago; the laws in Mass may have changed since then.

John Varela
(Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.)
I apologize for munging the address but the spam was too much.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I was sitting on the porch with my son over the weekend, and we heard a Catbird's call. I idly ... some coloring differences, looks much like the Mockingbird. Odd, that two such similar appearing birds make sounds of other creatures.[/nq]
Without having recourse to my rich ornithological experiences at W.Va.Anabaptist Coll., normally available only to subscribers, surely it's not too surprising that the catbird should share its relative's interest in mimicry? Seriously, the mockingbird and catbird both like to monopolize the best point of vantage: I think that's a pretty good explanation. (Barely relevantly, back in another part of the New World, I remember a kookaburra's fondness for a particular tatty old tree at the front of our patch when I was a boy; at least you can set an alarm-clock...)
"Tralala, twiddle-ee-deedee, it gives me a thrill..."

Mike.

Usenet · Answer

John Varela filted:
[nq:2]Incidentally, in Massachusetts it is common to encounter road signs ... Is this found in any other state or Anglophonic country?[/nq]
[nq:1]My guess would be that it has to do with some arcane requirement of the traffic laws of Massachusetts, probably ... the kind of place that would erect a sign like that rather than just put up a speed limit sign.[/nq]
The corresponding signs here in Arizona say "CONGESTED AREA"..r

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]All the mimic thrushes (catbirds, mockingbirds, thrashers) are accomplished at ... territory is thickly settled and newcomers will find no welcome.[/nq]
[nq:1]Incidentally, in Massachusetts it is common to encounter road signs that say "THICKLY SETTLED", if I remember rightly. Is this found in any other state or Anglophonic country? [/nq]
Yes, Fontana, "thickly settled"..HELLA BIZARRE! Don't ask me how ONE part of Worcester is considered "thickly settled", but 2 feet down the road isn't. It's always odd that the less ghetto areas are the ones that have the "thickly settled" signs..

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]The Catbird, except for some coloring differences, looks much like the Mockingbird. Odd, that two such similar appearing birds make sounds of other creatures..[/nq]
[nq:1]All the mimic thrushes (catbirds, mockingbirds, thrashers) are accomplished at imitating other birds, animal calls, and human artifacts. I don't ... that it allows them to perpetrate an illusion that their territory is thickly settled and newcomers will find no welcome.[/nq]
That's an interesting interpretation. My guess, given that many songbirds learn their songs by imitating their parents, is that the Mimidae are just less selective, but their songs are recognizable enough to their mates and rivals that it doesn't cause a disadvantage. But I have exactly as much data as you have.

Jerry Friedman was just wook up.

Catbird's seat

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