Can I use two commas to separate a dependent clause that's in-between two independent clauses?

Question

Although I'm fluent in English, there are occasionally times when I get confused about commas in certain sentence structures. There's one type of sentence in particular that's been on my mind for a while.

I know how to use commas for asides, clauses, interjections, addressing someone, etc., but I'm still not entirely sure if it's appropriate to use two commas in a sentence that goes in the pattern of independent clause -> dependent clause -> independent clause.

Here's an example sentence that I came up with:

It may be 2013, but if you were to go back in time, you'd find a lot of people with the same values.

I try to avoid these structures to begin with, but it's a pain to have to twist my sentence around to avoid potential grammar errors. I'm pretty sure that the above sentence is correct, but I want to be 100% sure that it's right when I'm using it.

Thanks in advance!

RandomGuy · Accepted Answer

AnonymousIt may be 2013, but if you were to go back in time, you'd find a lot of people with the same values.

Those commas are just fine.

Anonymous · Answer

The use of commas in writing in English is very fluid.  In that sentence you quoted, it could easily be written without any commas and still be acceptable.  A general rule is to use commas when a pause is definitely emphasized.  This is easier for a native speaker, since he can follow speech patterns that he grew up with.

RandomGuy · Answer

AnonymousIn that sentence you quoted, it could easily be written without any commas and still be acceptable.

It may be 2013 but if you were to go back in time you'd find a lot of people with the same values.

I don’t find that acceptable.

AnonymousA general rule is to use commas when a pause is definitely emphasized

Comma usage has mostly to do with convention, not intended pauses. For example, it is common to pause in a sentence like The thing is [pause] I have no money, but a comma would be unacceptable.

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you! I'm glad that I will finally be able to use that sentence structure with confidence. <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' alt='Emotion: smile'/>

Clive · Answer

I don't wish to be contentious, but my feeling is that one is going down the wrong road to teach students that commas are not related to pauses in speech. The result is often that students just start the almost impossible task of memorizing a host of so-called 'rules' that confuse them and that mean very little to them in terms of real communication.

A simple example is I have a brother who is a doctor versus I have a brother, who is a doctor.
When we say the latter, we don't say aloud the word 'comma'. We simply pause, in order to indicate that what will now be said is not closely linked to what has already been said.

I'm not arguing that this approach is easy and obvious in every case, but I find it provides a good foundation on which to try to build students' understanding.

Clive

RandomGuy · Answer

The problem with telling students to use a comma when they feel a pause is that it can lead to comma abuse (arbitrary pauses) or omission of essential commas. It’s too subjective. I would tell a student that the use of a comma in I have a brother who is a doctor would depend on whether he has one brother (nonrestrictive) or several (restrictive), not whether a pause is intended.

Clive · Answer

Yes, it can sometimes lead to problems. But it can also improve understanding of why the rules are what they are, which in my experience ultimately leads to a better outcome for the student

In very broad terms, speaking and pausing came first, and the rules followed to codify matters. That's why we can usually understand complicated sentences that are spoken aloud without having to see them written down.

Note that I'm not arguing that this is easy for people learning English. But neither is learning a lot of often arcane rules.

Clive

Can I use two commas to separate a dependent clause that's in-between two independent clauses?

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