Cair/caer

Question

Lloyd Alexander sets his Prydain Chronicles around Caer Dallben. C.S. Lewis describes Cair Paravel. I've seen that word in a few other books as well, as a prefix to the name of a place.
What exactly does "caer" mean? Where did it come from? (M-W didn't list it; I haven't checked OED yet)

Gopi Sundaram

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Lloyd Alexander sets his Prydain Chronicles around Caer Dallben. C.S. Lewis describes Cair Paravel. I've seen that word in a ... place. What exactly does "caer" mean? Where did it come from? (M-W didn't list it; I haven't checked OED yet)[/nq]
IINM it's a loan word, from Latin castrum , "fort" (cf. -caster, -cester, -chester in English toponyms).

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Lloyd Alexander sets his Prydain Chronicles around Caer Dallben. C.S. Lewis describes Cair Paravel. I've seen that word in a ... place. What exactly does "caer" mean? Where did it come from? (M-W didn't list it; I haven't checked OED yet)[/nq]
"Caer" (approx. pronounced to rhyme with "tire") is Welsh for "castle" or (in placenames) "chester".
Adrian

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Lloyd Alexander sets his Prydain Chronicles around Caer Dallben. C.S. Lewis describes Cair Paravel. I've seen that word in a ... place. What exactly does "caer" mean? Where did it come from? (M-W didn't list it; I haven't checked OED yet)[/nq]
It's a common element of Welsh placenames, indicating a fortified site of some kind. For example, I live about five miles from Caerwent in south east Wales; it's a small village in the centre of a well-preserved Roman town, VENTA SILURUM (the market town of the Silures). Three miles the other way is Caerleon, the Roman military town and permanent legionary base ISCA SILURUM with a large amphitheatre, much of which remains.
Matti

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Lloyd Alexander sets his Prydain Chronicles around Caer Dallben. C.S. ... from? (M-W didn't list it; I haven't checked OED yet)[/nq]
[nq:1]"Caer" (approx. pronounced to rhyme with "tire") is Welsh for "castle" or (in placenames) "chester".[/nq]
Hmm. The Welsh for "castle" is "cas". Castles are much more recent than the prehistoric and Roman fortifications which are associated with "caer".
Matti

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]"Caer" (approx. pronounced to rhyme with "tire") is Welsh for "castle" or (in placenames) "chester".[/nq]
[nq:1]Hmm. The Welsh for "castle" is "cas". Castles are much more recent than the prehistoric and Roman fortifications which are associated with "caer".[/nq]
"Caer" is akin to the Breton "ker", very frequent in place-names in Brittany, about 18,000 of them according to this page (in French):

http://www.arkae.org/p show.php3?menu=p archive&title=Toponymie&file=T G Ker.htm

What they are saying on that site is that "ker" is always used in compounds, never on its own, and that the core meaning, in Brittany, is that of town or village or more generally dwelling-place. The "castrum" etymology is mentioned, but the authors of the page seem to favour a theory according to which "ker" would come from an Old Brittonic " kag-ro", an enclosed space.

Isabelle Cecchini

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]"Caer" (approx. pronounced to rhyme with "tire") is Welsh for "castle" or (in placenames) "chester".[/nq]
[nq:1]Hmm. The Welsh for "castle" is "cas". Castles are much more recent than the prehistoric and Roman fortifications which are associated with "caer".[/nq]
You're wronger than I was.

Castle = "castell". I take your point though.

Though.. http://www.historic-uk.com/DestinationsUK/MaidenCastle.htm

Adrian

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Hmm. The Welsh for "castle" is "cas". Castles are much more recent than the prehistoric and Roman fortifications which are associated with "caer".[/nq]
[nq:1]"Caer" is akin to the Breton "ker", very frequent in place-names in Brittany, about 18,000 of them according to this page (in French):[/nq]
http://www.arkae.org/p show.php3?menu=p archive&title=Toponymie&file=T G Ker.htm
[nq:1]What they are saying on that site is that "ker" is always used in compounds, never on its own, and ... seem to favour a theory according to which "ker" would come from an Old Brittonic " kag-ro", an enclosed space.[/nq]
It's "ker" or "kar" in Cornish also, though the K is often anglicised to C in derived names. It is usually translated as "fort", e.g. Carthew from Kardhu = black fort.

Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus those of alt.usage.english at tpg dot com dot au

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