by bus, plane etc.: how to say more specifically

Question

Hi,Let me get this right. If the simple structure of by bus, car etc. is not enough and I want to be more specific,am I right in the following examples: You can go there by local busYou can go there on a local busAre we going there by that red car?Are we going there in that red car?Are we going there by a car?Are we going there in a car?Are we going there by the car?Are we going there in the car?We travelled by big planeWe travelled on a big planeSo I need to replace by with on or in if I want to add more words?Thanks

Caris · Accepted Answer

I'm a little confused on what you are asking, because in English, there are exceptions to every rule. And some of the above sentences seem ok while others may be "correct" but would not likely be spoken by a native speaker. When in doubt, do not use "by." "In" and "on" are by far more frequently used by native speakers of American English.
But yes, in general, if you use "by," subtract the articles before the noun.

EagerSeeker · Answer

carisI'm a little confused on what you are asking, because in English, there are exceptions to every rule. And some of the above sentences seem ok while others may be "correct" but would not likely be spoken by a native speaker. When in doubt, do not use "by." "In" and "on" are by far more frequently used by native speakers of American English.
But yes, in general, if you use "by," subtract the articles before the noun.

I was just interested to know if it is possible to use common fixed expressions like by bus in a different way by saying something more like by local bus.
But as I have understood it is not possible to break these fixed expressions and you can only say, for example, by bus, but not by local bus. And if you want to be
more specific and add that word local you will have to use on instead of by like on a local bus. That is just my conclusion and way to see this as my dictionaries
and grammar books have mainly examples of these "short" common fixed expressions and these fixed expressions won't help much if you also want to say that the bus is
local.

By googling I found someone breaking the rules:
Destinations by local bus from Barnard Castle.
Click on a place name for details of how to get there by local bus
http://www.carlberry.co.uk/rfnshowl.asp?L1=BAR075

So what might be the final word?

Clive · Answer

Hi,
'By local bus' is fine.

Clive

AlpheccaStars · Answer

Use "by" if you mean a type of transportation. For example,
She went to school by bus. (by = by means of. It means that she didn't go by another type of transportation such as train or bicycle. )

"Local bus" is a type of transportation if there are other types of bus transportation offered as alternatives, for example, express bus or intercity bus.
You can get there faster by express bus rather than by local bus.

But, if you mean a specific vehicle, then use "on":
Go downtown on bus number 66.
She went to school on the bus. (Implies that she took the same vehicle every day.)

EagerSeeker · Answer

Thank you all for your help. It is good to know that I can be more specific with by and say, for example, by local bus.
But I don't understand why our teachers and books are always giving examples like by bus and preaching that they are fixed expressions when they are not.

How to travel to a sales conference
http://www.listen-to-english.com/index.php?id=326
This is very confusing, isn’t it – “on a train”, “in a car”, “on a bicycle” – how can we remember when to say “in” and when to say “on”? Well, I am afraid that you just have to learn. But while you are learning, remember that you can nearly always use the word “by” to explain how you are going to travel. So here are some of the ways to get to the sales conference. You can travel by car, or by road; you can travel by train or by rail; you can come by plane or by air; and you can arrive by bus, by tram, by underground, by taxi, by coach, by helicopter, by horse, or by elephant. The only time that you can’t use “by” is when you walk – you arrive “on foot”, not “by foot”.

Yep, Have I told how much I love these exceptions to every rule in English and especially when you never know the whole truth.

AlpheccaStars · Answer

Well, there are some general rules. If you go by these rules, you will be OK.
Alternative bus services are not very common, so it is safer to say "by bus" when you want to say a means of transportation (compared with other possibilities), and use "on" or "in" where a comparison is not intended, or when referring to a specific vehicle.
Use "on" when you would normally walk onto or sit on top of the conveyance. Use "in" for everything else, or in situations where you want to stress being inside something.
They rode in the car. (you cannot walk into a car)

She rode on a camel. (on top of, not in the camel, unless the camel ate her first) . Jonah rode in the whale (the whale ate him). I like to ride on jet skis in summer. (they are on my feet, so I am on top of the skis)

I went on the train / bus. But: "The accident happened when they were sitting in the train / bus." "The accident happened when they were on the train / bus". is correct, too.
You can walk onto ferries and large aircraft, so use "on".
For smaller planes and gliders, use "in". The went to Las Vegas in a private plane. (My cousin has a private plane, and I cannot walk into it at all!)
For small boats, use "in" - I rode in the canoe.

Caris · Answer

yes you can say "by local bus" Personally, I feel it is not very common, but sounds like a phrase that would be more often used in England.

by bus, plane etc.: how to say more specifically

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