...but I thought it'd be useless to start a new one.

Question

Please make corrections/edits to the following text:

I'm sorry for digging up this old thread, but I thought it'd be useless to start a new one.

Okay, I accept that Pacino is pronounced as pa-chee-no because it's an Italian name. But does Al Pacino use English letters to spell his surname in Italian also? I don't think so. So why isn't Pacino simply written as Pacheeno or Pachino in English to match its pronunciation? I believe even an English native won't be able to pronounce Pacino as pacheeno if s/he hasn't heard of Al Pacino before.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

Many languages change the spellings of words they borrow from other languages so that the borrowed words are spelled in conformance to the spelling rules of the borrowing language.

English is not one of these. As long as the original language uses the same alphabet as English, English usually accepts borrowed words exactly as they are spelled in their original language, without changes, even if the letters are pronounced differently in the other language. (So Pacino is spelled the same in English as it is in Italian. ci has the chee sound in Italian, so we say the chee sound for ci in words borrowed from Italian.)

Therefore, to pronounce English well, it is necessary to understand, at least to some small degree, how the letters are pronounced not only in English but also in Italian, French, Greek, German, Spanish, etc.

In fact, this feature of English is so well established and understood that in spelling competitions the competitors are usually allowed to ask the language of origin of any word they must spell. It helps them determine the correct spelling.

You mention that

I believe even an English native won't be able to pronounce Pacino as pacheeno if s/he hasn't heard of Al Pacino before.

Yes, that's true. But Pacino is not unusual in that respect. English speakers would not know how to pronounce Cheyenne, Wednesday, colonel, said, pint, amoeba, women, archaic, Worcestershire, or does unless they had heard these either! The same is true of hundreds of English words.

CJ

Jackson6612 · Answer

CalifJimBut Pacino is not unusual in that respect. English speakers would not know how to pronounce Cheyenne, Wednesday, colonel, said, pint, amoeba, women, archaic, Worcestershire, or does unless they had heard these either! The same is true of hundreds of English words.

CJ

Hi CJ

I never thought about the weirdness of the above mentioned words before. Thank you for such a detailed, easy to understand explanation. And I would like to thank you for all of the excellent help you have provided me since the time I joined EnglishForward.

With very best wishes, Jackson

Jackson6612 · Answer

Hi CJ

Question 1:

The following bold names are latinized names of persons whose normal names are appearing in regular fonts:

Leonhardus Eulerus (Leonhard Euler)

Christopher Columbus (Cristoforo Colombo)

Pelagius (Morgan)

Americus Vespucius (Amerigo Vespucci)

I don't understand why Leonhard is latinized as Leonhardus and so on?

Question 2:

In Indian language, Hindi, kiun kii stands for because and daud for run. kii in kiun kii is pronounced as kay or k and daud is pronounced as daur where d sounds as in Doha, then why aren't kii simply written as kay and daud as daur?

CalifJim · Answer

1. We would have to study some Latin to understand this. I don't know enough Latin to answer your question.
2. I also don't know enough about how Hindi is transliterated into English to be able to answer this question.

I can only answer in a very general way that borrowings from other languages into English are not always done consistently. Sometimes it even depends on the historical period in which the word is borrowed, because the standard procedure for handling these may be different from one century to another. There are also sometimes competing schools of linguists, all trying to establish their own way of handling these situations. There are several different ways of representing Chinese words in English, for example.

So, often, what you see written on the page is the result of a great many unpredictable historical events.

CJ

...but I thought it'd be useless to start a new one.

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