'both' two sentences

Question

We are both candidates.1) Is both an adjective or a pronoun here? My dictionary says its a pronoun, but I can't see how. The sentences, both present and past tense, are correct.2) What is the name of this phrase type?Thanks

English 1b3 · Accepted Answer

Anyone <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' alt='Emotion: smile'/>

Mr Wordy · Answer

1) I don't know how it should to be classified, but I don't see how it's either an adjective or a pronoun. Pronoun use would be something like "Both are candidates", and adjective (or determiner) use would be something like "We saw both candidates". To me it almost seems adverbial, but I don't see any dictionaries offering that as an option.

I hope someone can answer this because I'm interested to know too.

English 1b3 · Answer

Ta. Any collateral insights on my question 2? Anything at all will be of use...

Mr Wordy · Answer

English 1b3Any collateral insights on my question 2?

I'm afraid not. I mean, it seems to me to be functioning as a determiner (modifying "sentences"), but I assume you're looking for more than that?

CalifJim · Answer

English 1b3We are both candidates.

1) Is both an adjective or a pronoun here? My dictionary says its a pronoun, but I can't see how.

It is definitely not an adjective, so it must be a pronoun.

It's one of those few "right-floating" elements. Are "all" and "both" the only ones? Could be.

All of us are candidates. > We all are candidates. > We are all candidates.
Both of us are candidates. > We both are candidates. > We are both candidates.

We took a look at all of them. > We took a look at them all.
We took a look at both of them. > ?We took a look at them both.

CJ

English 1b3 · Answer

CalifJimIt is definitely not an adjective, so it must be a pronoun.

Sigh, I wish I had logic. Those darn right-floating pronouns are everywhere!

Also, do both of these work?

How do these phrases function? Is it just a correlative conjunction joining parts of a reduced adjective clause?

a.The sentences, both present and past tense, are correct.

This seems not to work, because it is too hard to tell whether each sentence is present and past or one is present and one is past. But then if I change the sentence, keeping the same construction, it seems to work:

b. The crowd, both young and old, left the stadium before witnesing the demise of their team.

Is this different and/or better than a?

c. The sentences, both the present and past tense versions, are correct.

CalifJim · Answer

English 1b3Is it just a correlative conjunction joining parts of a reduced adjective clause?

a.The sentences, both present and past tense, are correct.

Yes. Why not? I read it thus:

Both of the two sentences, that is, both the present tense sentence and the past tense sentence, are correct.

I don't have the impression that we're talking about any sentences that are both present and past at the same time.

Adding "versions" just changes the sentence so that it's about two versions of the same sentence rather than about two different sentences. I don't see anything better or worse about it.

CJ

English 1b3 · Answer

CalifJim
I don't have the impression that we're talking about any sentences that are both present and past at the same time.

Logic leads us in the right direction, but I was afraid the grammar police may object to subtle ambiguities.

One more thing, how does the phrase function? It may be too hard to label it, since it is reduced from something else.

CalifJim · Answer

English 1b3 how does the phrase function?

As an adjective phrase modifying sentences.

CJ

English 1b3 · Answer

Right, that's what I though--until you thought the sentence could rewritten to consist of noun phrases not adjective phrases (both the past tense sentence and present tense sentence).

I know the subjunctive is the last question you want to answer (when asked by me), but if you change your mind, here it is:

'both' two sentences

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