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Pilu Posted 21 years ago
Grammar
Both
Hi,
When to say "both of" and when to say "both"?
I know, "BOTH" my parents came home today, is right and "BOTH OF" us went to school today is correct. But is there any reason why is it said so?
Thanks.
When to say "both of" and when to say "both"?
I know, "BOTH" my parents came home today, is right and "BOTH OF" us went to school today is correct. But is there any reason why is it said so?
Thanks.
Top answer
"both of" is must be used with plural pronouns: 1. Both of them 2. Both of us 3.
- "both of" is must be used with plural pronouns: 1.
- Both of them 2.
- Both of us 3.
- Both of you 4.
- Both of her/him (odd but in some contexts, say if she/he can split herself into two) You can't say: 1a.
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9 Answers
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"both of" is must be used with plural pronouns:
1. Both of them
2. Both of us
3. Both of you
4. ?Both of her/him (odd but in some contexts, say if she/he can split herself into two)
You can't say:
1a. *Both them
2a. *Both us
Plural nouns with an article can take "both" and "both of":
5a. Both dogs
5b. Both the dogs
5c
1. Both of them
2. Both of us
3. Both of you
4. ?Both of her/him (odd but in some contexts, say if she/he can split herself into two)
You can't say:
1a. *Both them
2a. *Both us
Plural nouns with an article can take "both" and "both of":
5a. Both dogs
5b. Both the dogs
5c
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Hi
I've two questions relating to 'both'.
[1] Why 'both of' cannot be used with bare plurals?
Is it because 'both' is a partial quantitative word like those below?
partitive expressions : X of the Ys
X: all, any, each, few, half, many, none, part, some, two, a third, etc.
Y: countable noun
(EX) all of th
I've two questions relating to 'both'.
[1] Why 'both of' cannot be used with bare plurals?
Is it because 'both' is a partial quantitative word like those below?
partitive expressions : X of the Ys
X: all, any, each, few, half, many, none, part, some, two, a third, etc.
Y: countable noun
(EX) all of th
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Eq:
"both of" cannot be used with bare plurals (plural nouns without an article):
5d. *Both of dogs
6d. *Both of parents
Paco:
[1] Why 'both of' cannot be used with bare plurals?
With 'bare plurals', it functions as an adjective, whereas with "of", it functions as a substantive noun.
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Hi Casi
Thank you for the response. I have not still got structures of English 'of' noun phrases fully. I understand the 'both' in "both men" is an attributive adjective and the 'both' in "both of the men" is a noun (substantive). But you would say "a basket of strawberries" without 'the' for 'strawberries'. So your explanation seems not quite persuasive for reasoning the need of 'the'
Thank you for the response. I have not still got structures of English 'of' noun phrases fully. I understand the 'both' in "both men" is an attributive adjective and the 'both' in "both of the men" is a noun (substantive). But you would say "a basket of strawberries" without 'the' for 'strawberries'. So your explanation seems not quite persuasive for reasoning the need of 'the'
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You're welcome, Paco.
As a noun, "both" is 'definite', or defining in meaning:
Defining Noun + of + the + Noun
Both of the baskets of strawberries.
Non-Defining Adjective + of + (the) + Noun
Both (the) baskets of strawberries.
Both men. (Adjective)
Both of the men. (Noun; defining)
As a noun, "both" is 'definite', or defining in meaning:
Defining Noun + of + the + Noun
Both of the baskets of strawberries.
Non-Defining Adjective + of + (the) + Noun
Both (the) baskets of strawberries.
Both men. (Adjective)
Both of the men. (Noun; defining)
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Hello Casi
Thank you again. 'They' and 'both' in "they both" are appositional just like 'we' and 'Japanese' in "we Japanese" are. So I though 'both' should come immediately after 'they'. But the result of googling is: 154,000 hits for "they both are ... " and 1460,000 for "they are both... ". So I have to admit the latter should sound more natural to native speakers. As for reasoning th
Thank you again. 'They' and 'both' in "they both" are appositional just like 'we' and 'Japanese' in "we Japanese" are. So I though 'both' should come immediately after 'they'. But the result of googling is: 154,000 hits for "they both are ... " and 1460,000 for "they are both... ". So I have to admit the latter should sound more natural to native speakers. As for reasoning th
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'They' and 'both' in "they both" are appositional just like 'we' and 'Japanese' in "we Japanese" are..
Interesting. . . I'd like to hear more about that.
the result of googling is: 154,000 hits for "they both are ... " and 1460,000 for "they are both... ". So I have to admit the latter should sound more natural to native speakers.
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Hello Casi
OED tells about the appositional use of 'both' like this;
2. In apposition with a plural n. or pronoun.
When referring to the subject of a sentence, both was in early ME, usually separated from it, and placed after the verb or whole predication. This is still common dialectally. In the literary language, both is still placed after the verb 'be' (occasionally
OED tells about the appositional use of 'both' like this;
2. In apposition with a plural n. or pronoun.
When referring to the subject of a sentence, both was in early ME, usually separated from it, and placed after the verb or whole predication. This is still common dialectally. In the literary language, both is still placed after the verb 'be' (occasionally
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