Before + Present Simple

Question

Can you tell me the typical pattern used to express different time frames when using the present simple with conjunctions such as 'before'?

What are the meanings/time frames of the following?

a. Before the decade is over, David has sent Mike's discovery over to researches and scientists for testing

b. Before the decade is over, David sends Mike's discovery over to researches and scientists for testing

c. Before the decade is over, David will send Mike's discovery over to researches and scientists for testing

Thank you very much

Clive · Accepted Answer

Hi,

Can you tell me the typical pattern used to express different time frames when using the present simple with conjunctions such as 'before'?

What are the meanings/time frames of the following?

r~~esearches~~ researchers

a. Before the decade is over, David has sent Mike's discovery over to researches and scientists for testing The speaker wants to focus on the period after it will have been sent. i the state that exists afterthe sending.

b. Before the decade is over, David sends Mike's discovery over to researches and scientists for testing

The writer wants to focus on the act of sending.

c. Before the decade is over, David will send Mike's discovery over to researches and scientists for testing This is rather like a prediction. (Compare 'Before today is over, it will rain.)

Of these three, C seems the most common. A and B are in a narrative style.

Clive

English 1b3 · Answer

Clive
b. Before the decade is over, David sends Mike's discovery over to researches and scientists for testing

The writer wants to focus on the act of sending

How come we don't need to use the progressive tense to show the sending is happening now?

Also, what is the overall tense for both a and b? They seem to be present but talking about something in the past. Could you explain please?

Clive · Answer

Hi,

“

b. Before the decade is over, David sends Mike's discovery over to researches and scientists for testing

The writer wants to focus on the act of sending

”

How come we don't need to use the progressive tense to show the sending is happening now?

You mean this?

Before the decade is over, David is sending sends Mike's discovery over to researchers . .

Why would you want to use continuous? To send something is a brief activity at a point in time rather than one tha thas real duration.

Also, what is the overall tense for both a and b? They seem to be present but talking about something in the past. Could you explain please?

Didn't we discuss this already? It's using the present tense to tell a narrative.

eg Here's the story of Hamlet.

The King's brother kills the King. The King's ghost tells Hamlet about the murder. before he kills the king, Hamlet thinks a lot and talks a lot. Then Hamlet kills the King. Afterwards, Hamlet dies.

Clive

English 1b3 · Answer

Clive
Why would you want to use continuous? To send something is a brief activity at a point in time rather than one tha thas real duration.

But I thought the present simple was not able to say something that is happening now; we use the progressive for this. Using the present simple states a habit for example. Do I have something wrong?

CliveIt's using the present tense to tell a narrative.

Same question. The present simple has the below uses according to a site and not my sentences don't fit into any category:

Facts and generalization
Habits and routines
Permanent situations
State verbs (e.g. be, have, think, know)
Fixed / official arrangement that we can't change

Clive · Answer

Hi,

Hi,

My point was that the sentences, particularly A and B, sound like they are telling a story. They are not about 'now', just as sthe story of Hamlet' is not about 'now'.

For the Simple Present used as a narrative device, here are a couple of links that discuss it.

Look at point 4.

http://www.eslbase.com/grammar/present-simple

Or here, at the section on narrative tense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrative_mode

Have a look at almost any movie review to find the present tense used to tell the reader the plot.

eg for the new movie of Robin Hood

http://www.nme.com/movies/reviews/movie-review-robin-hood/11295

Clive

English 1b3 · Answer

Thanks for the links, Clive.

So let me just make this clear:

When we are not telling a storry, the present simple shows habits (I kill 3 people, I run around the goal post). But when we are telling a story, the present simple doesn't express a habit--expressing a past action instead?

Is this use of the present simple you speak of the same as the historical present style?

Thanks

Clive · Answer

Hi,

So let me just make this clear:

When we are not telling a storry, the present simple shows habits (I kill 3 people, I run around the goal post). You told me earlier it expresses 5 'things', of which 1 was habits.

But when we are telling a story, the present simple doesn't express a habit--expressing a past action instead? Not just a past action. eg You can say things like Mary cooks dinner. The dinner is pork chops. The next day, the sky is very blue.

I hope you understand that I'm using the term 'story' loosely. It doesn't just mean fiction. Think of it more as a narrative device.

Anoher illustration is in newpaper headlines.

eg Yesterday Obama visited France, so today's newpaper headline says 'Obama visits France'.

Is this use of the present simple you speak of the same as the historical present style?

Sounds like it, eg my Obama example above, but I'm not familiar with that term.

Clive

English 1b3 · Answer

Thanks, Clive.

This is where my confusion arose:

"Speakers sometimes use the Simple Present to express the idea that an action is happening or is not happening now. This can only be done with Non-Continuous Verbs and certain Mixed Verbs."

http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/simplepresent.html

This site also says you need to use the present progressive for normal verbs to show an action happening right now. Therefore, I was confused about why the normal verb in the topic sentence 'David sends Mike's discovery' was in the present simple, not the present progressive.

So your answer is that normal verbs can express an action right now in the simple present as long as it is used as a narrative device. Is this correct?

Clive · Answer

Hi,

So your answer is that normal verbs can express an action right now in the simple present as long as it is used as a narrative device. Is this correct? Yes.

eg Consider a commentator describing a soccer game as it happens. Tom passes the ball to Fred. Fred shoots. He scores!

b. Before the decade is over, David sends Mike's discovery over to researches and scientists for testing

What makes you think this is happening right now?

Most narratives are not about things that are happening right now.

Clive

English 1b3 · Answer

Another interpretation someone mentioned: 'David sends Mike's discovery' is using the present simple to express a fact. But I agree with you that it is using this tense to tell a story of something that happened in the past.

Thanks for clearing this up. I just remember a while back writing an example sentence on this forum using the simple present, only to be told by CJ that the present simple expresses habit and that I need to use the continuous tense to express something happening now.

That's why I asked you why isn't "David sends" "David is sending"?

Before + Present Simple

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