Avangi, Mr Wordy, Marius Hancu, CalifJim ........

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Pructus · Accepted Answer

I did some homework..........

Jesus Christ is his answer! Mercy is his answer! Forgiveness is his answer! In other words, all the things you despair of. They are there for you, in abundance. Were it never required of ***, how could we call Him Merciful? Were it never required of ***, how could we call Him Loving? Were it never required of ***,

Were it never required of ***, how could we call Him Merciful?......... Translation, Please.... Below are my Googlings...

The Italians report (as far as I remember) of the Duke of Florence his fool, who when his Lord asked him how, being so ill-clad, he could endure the cold, which he hardly was able to doe himselfe; to whom the foole replied: 'Master, use but my receipt and put all the cloaths you have upon you, as I doe all mine; you shall feele no more cold than I doe.' King Massinissa, even in his eldest daies, were it never so cold, so frosty, so stormie, or sharpe wether, could never be induced to put something on his head, but went alwaies bareheaded. The like is reported of the Emperor Severus.

But indeed Conviction, were it never so excellent, is worthless till it convert itself into Conduct. Nay properly conviction is not possible till then; inasmuch as all Speculation is by nature endless, formless, a vortex amid vortices: only by a felt indubitable certainty of Experience does it find any centre to revolve round, and so fashion itself into a system. Most true it is, as a wise man teaches us, that "Doubt of any sort cannot be removed except by Action." On which ground, too, let him who gropes painfully in darkness or uncertain light, and prays vehemently that the dawn may ripen into day, lay this other precept well to heart, which to me was of invaluable service: "DO THE DUTY WHICH LIES NEAREST THEE," which thou knowest to be a duty! Thy second duty will already have become clearer. . . .The Situation that has not its Duty, its Ideal, was never yet occupied by man. Yes here, in this poor, miserable, hampered, despicable Actual, wherein thou even know standest, here or nowhere is thy Ideal: work it out therefrom; and working, believe, live, be free. Fool! The Ideal is in thyself, the stuff thou art to shape that same Ideal out of: what matters whether such stuff be of this sort or that, so the Form thou give it be heroic, be poetic? O thou that pinest in the imprisonment of the Actual, and criest bitterly to the gods for a kingdom wherein to rule and create, know this of a truth: the thing thou seekest is already with thee, "here or nowhere," couldst thou only see! . . . . Be no longer a Chaos, but a World, or even Worldkin. Produce! Produce! Were it but the pitifullest infinitesimal fraction of a Product, produce it, in ***'s name! 'Tis the utmost thou hast in thee: out with it, then. Up, up! Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy whole might. Work while it is called Today; for the Night cometh, wherein no man can work.

-- Thomas Carlyle, Sartor Resartus

This is the goodliest people and of I the fairest conditions that wee haue found in this our voyage. They exceed us in bignes, they I are of the colour of brassse, some of them encline more to whitnes; others are of yellowe colour, of comely visage with long & black haire.... wee were oftentime within the lande 5. or 6. leagues, which we found as pleasant as is possible to declare very apt for any kinds of husbandry of corn, wine and oyle: for that there are plaines 25. or 30. leagues broad, open and without any impediment of trees and such fruitfulness, that any seede being sowne therein, will bringforth most excellent fruite. We entred afterwards into the woods which wee found so great and thicke, that any armie were it never so great might have hid it selfe therein....

exactly right. They have lost the protection of 'professional courtesy', which limited the publics knowledge of their activities. Honesty is being enforced were it never was before.

Such tendency to Mysticism is everywhere traceable in this man; and indeed, to attentive readers, must have been long ago apparent. Nothing that he sees but has more than a common meaning, but has two meanings: thus, if in the highest Imperial Sceptre and Charlemagne-Mantle, as well as in the poorest Ox-goad and Gypsy-Blanket, he finds Prose, Decay, Contemptibility; there is in each sort Poetry also, and a reverend Worth. For Matter, were it never so despicable, is Spirit, the manifestation of Spirit: were it never so honorable, can it be more? The thing Visible, nay the thing Imagined, the thing in any way conceived as Visible, what is it but a Garment, a Clothing of the higher, celestial Invisible, "unimaginable formless, dark with excess of bright"? Under which point of view the following passage, so strange in purport, so strange in phrase, seems characteristic enough.

Where there is not some thing, both lasting and scarce, and so valuable to be hoarded up, there men will not be apt to enlarge their possessions of land, were it never so rich, never so free for them to take: for I ask, what would a man value ten thousand, or an hundred thousand acres of excellent land, ready cultivated, and well stocked too with cattle, in the middle of the inland parts of America, where he had no hopes of commerce with other parts of the world, to draw money to him by the sale of the product? It would not be worth the enclosing, and we should see him give up again to the wild common of nature, whatever was more than would supply the conveniencies of life to be had there for him and his family.

Now, notwithstanding the nights obscurity, and impetuous violence of the billowes; such as could swimme, made shift to save their lives by swimming. Others caught hold on such things, as by Fortunes favour, floated neerest to them, among whom, distressed Landolpho, desirous to save his life, if possibly it might be, espied a Chest or Coffer before him, ordained (no doubt) to be the meanes of his safety from drowning. Now although the day before, he had wished for death infinite times, rather then to returne home in such wretched poverty; yet, seeing how other men strove for safety of their lives by any helpe, were it never so little, bee tooke advantage of this favour offred him, and the rather in a necessitie so urgent.

Mr Wordy · Answer

I have no intuition at all about how the words "were it never so" should have come to mean "even though it is (very)". No doubt there are good historical reasons, but these are completely obscure to me, and, I suspect, to most other non-specialist native speakers.

(Of course, this assumes that my interpretation is correct. I have not been able to find any authoritative independent corroboration of this, but there are many Googlable example where this meaning seems very much to be the one intended.)

Mr Wordy · Answer

pructusWere it never required of ***, how could we call Him Merciful? Were it never required of ***, how could we call Him Loving? Were it never required of ***, how would we call Him forgiving?

I believe that this is a different meaning (note: no "so"). I think it means "If it were never".

pructuseven in his eldest daies, were it never so cold, so frosty, so stormie, or sharpe wether, could never be induced to put something on his head, but went alwaies bareheaded

"... even though it might have been very cold, frosty etc., he ... always went bareheaded"
"... no matter how cold, frosty, etc. ..."

pructusBut indeed Conviction, were it never so excellent, is worthless

"Conviction, even though it may be excellent, is worthless...".
"Conviction, no matter how excellent, is worthless

pructusany armie were it never so great might have hid it selfe therein

"... any army, even though it might be very great..."
"... any army, no matter how great..."

pructus Honesty is being enforced were it never was before.

This is a typo for "where it never was before".

Pructus · Answer

Honesty is being enforced were it never was before.

*********

How about...

Honesty is being enforced as if honesty were never enforced before.

Mr Wordy · Answer

pructusHow about...

Honesty is being enforced as if honesty were never enforced before.

Nope, I don't think so. I am 99% sure that it's a simple typo for "where".

Pructus · Answer

Thanks, Mr Wordy.....

Looking "were never" can also mean "were ever", Englis is a really difficult language to master.....

Mr Wordy · Answer

pructus Englis is a really difficult language to master.....

Yep! Bear in mind, though, that this expression "were it never so" is unknown in modern usage. I believe that the majority of native speakers would have no clue what it means, and certainly wouldn't be able to work it out from the component parts. So, you are in good company in finding this one difficult!

Marius Hancu · Answer

Sorry, I can't tell you more than in the other thread. Only an  expert in both writings of that period and in Emerson could  tell  you that in definite terms, IMO. Try to find an expert in Emerson.

Pructus · Answer

Thanks Mr Wordy and Marius !!

Thanks a lot....

Avangi, Mr Wordy, Marius Hancu, CalifJim ........

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