Australian English

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Hello, the differences between american and british english are well known. I just wonder if it is possible to speak also of australian english. I am curious to know if there are any words in australian english that are written in a different way from british english. And what about english of Canada, Scotland, Ireland? Thanks, Claudio

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Hello, the differences between american and british english are well known. I just wonder if it is possible to speak ... that are written in a different way from british english. And what about english of Canada, Scotland, Ireland? Thanks, Claudio[/nq]
Not only is it "possible to speak of" such forms, these varieties of English are well recognised. There are well-known Dictionaries of Australian and Canadian English and a number of Scots English dictionaries, which a google search will turn up. (I'm not sure about Irish English.)

-- Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years; Southern England for the past 21 years. (for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)

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[nq:2]the differences between american and british english are well known. I just wonder if it is possible to speak also of australian english.[/nq]
[nq:1]. . . these varieties of English are well recognised. There are well-known Dictionaries of Australian and Canadian English and a number of Scots English dictionaries[/nq]
Beware: these adjectives all define political states: but state boundaries do not define language use. The real varieties of English are geographically much smaller, cf. differences between English as she is spoken in Maine, Louisiana, Arizona, Illinois etc (or London, Norfolk, Yorkshire, Cornwall.)

-- Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)

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[nq:2]. . . these varieties of English are well recognised. ... and Canadian English and a number of Scots English dictionaries[/nq]
[nq:1]Beware: these adjectives all define political states: but state boundaries do not define language use.[/nq]
State boundaries do not define language use, but state boundaries are often roughly co-terminal with the boundaries between aspects of language use.
[nq:1]The real varieties of English are geographically much smaller, cf. differences between English as she is spoken in Maine, Louisiana, Arizona, Illinois etc (or London, Norfolk, Yorkshire, Cornwall.)[/nq]
If these are the "real varieties" of English, does that mean that the variations between, say, Australian and American English are somehow "not real"?

What do you mean by "real varieties"?

That differences exist at the micro as well as macro level is obvious, but it doesn't illegitimise macro classifications and grouping of these differrences.

-- Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years; Southern England for the past 21 years. (for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2] Beware: these adjectives all define political states: but state boundaries do not define language use.[/nq]
[nq:1]State boundaries do not define language use, but state boundaries are often roughly co-terminal with the boundaries between aspects of language use.[/nq]
[nq:2]The real varieties of English are geographically much smaller, cf. ... Maine, Louisiana, Arizona, Illinois etc (or London, Norfolk, Yorkshire, Cornwall.)[/nq]
[nq:1]If these are the "real varieties" of English, does that mean that the variations between, say, Australian and American English ... the micro as well as macro level is obvious, but it doesn't illegitimise macro classifications and grouping of these differrences.[/nq]
Then there's the question of standard dialects: The dialects used in formal documents, used by courts and in most published works and which are taught in schools. You can't really speak of an "American dialect" or a "British dialect"~~those are really branches of the English language~~-but you can speak of the dialects called "Standard American English" and "Standard British English." Canadian English and Australian English also have standard dialects. To what extent can Irish English and Scots be considered to have standard dialects which are separate from Standard British English? That I don't know. (Note that I am distinguishing dialect from accent. Standard American English, for example, does not have a standard accent, an equivalent to the British RP.)

To the original poster: I would suggest looking up the subject of varieties of English in The Cambridge Encyclopedia of The English Language by David Crystal or *The Oxford Companion to the English Language,* edited by Tom McArthur.

-- Raymond S. Wise Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Beware: these adjectives all define political states: but state boundaries do not define language use.[/nq]
This is true, but the political divisions tend to concide with divions between the areas in which school exams are set and marked, so the English that is taught as a school subject does follow political groupings.

That English is not necessarily the same as the English that is spoken in those areas (or in any subdivisions of those areas) - but it does influence it.

Cheers, Daniel.

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In article (Email Removed), Harvey Van Sickle (Email Removed) writes
[nq:2]Hello, the differences between american and british english are well ... And what about english of Canada, Scotland, Ireland? Thanks, Claudio[/nq]
[nq:1]Not only is it "possible to speak of" such forms, these varieties of English are well recognised. There are well-known ...[/nq]
surrounded by a language that will convince you that you've suddenly been transported to somewhere north of the Lueneburger Heide.
-- Dave

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[nq:1]In article (Email Removed), Harvey Van Sickle (Email Removed) writes[/nq]
[nq:2] Not only is it "possible to speak of" such ... search will turn up. (I'm not sure about Irish English.)[/nq]
[nq:1]Don't be mistaken in thinking of the Scots language as just "the english of Scotland".[/nq]
Where on earth was it even remotely suggested that "Scots English" was to be taken to mean "Scots"?

In the phrase "Scots English", "Scots" is an adjective. The subject under discussion was the variety of English spoken in Scotland, not that there is another language spoken in Scotland which is not a variety of English.

~~snip rest of explanation about the existence of another language~~

-- Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years; Southern England for the past 21 years. (for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)

Usenet · Answer

In article (Email Removed), Harvey Van Sickle (Email Removed) writes
[nq:2]In article (Email Removed), Harvey Van Sickle (Email Removed) writes Don't be mistaken in thinking of the Scots language as just "the english of Scotland".[/nq]
[nq:1]Where on earth was it even remotely suggested that "Scots English" was to be taken to mean "Scots"? In the ... about the existence of another language-[/nq]
I would have hoped that the parts you snipped would have answered your comments.
-- Dave

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]In article (Email Removed), Harvey Van Sickle (Email Removed) writes[/nq]
[nq:2] Where on earth was it even remotely suggested that ... spoken in Scotland which is not a variety of English.[/nq]
[nq:1]I took this from the part of the OP's posting where he says "And what about english of Canada, Scotland, ... you, because the tenor of his question suggested that he may not be conscious of the historical origins of Scots.[/nq]
I didn't pick up that undertone at all: I couldn't tell if the OP did or didn't know of the origin of Scots, but he wasn't asking about Scots: he was asking about the forms of English which are unique to Scotland.

Your response struck me as a true non sequitur: rather like someone asking "what are the variations of German which are found in Swiss German", and replying "Romansch has entirely different roots to German".
[nq:2]~~snip rest of explanation about the existence of another language~~[/nq]
[nq:1]I would have hoped that the parts you snipped would have answered your comments.[/nq]
But I don't think they did. (I've re-read them, in case.)

You were rightly pointing out that "Scots" as a language doesn't equate to "Scots English", but as you've quoted, the OP's post asked about the "english of Canada, Scotland,..." -- that would, I think, mean "as it exists today".

I took the question to relate to the varieties of English spoken in Australia, Canada and Scotland, and not to the survival, obliteration or influence of native or other languages -- basically, I thought he was clearly asking about Scots English, and not about Scots.

-- Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years; Southern England for the past 21 years. (for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)

Usenet · Answer

I initially read your message to mean words like colour/color? If that's the case then the Aussies follow the standard english spelling in most cases, although unfortunately our culture is becomming more american, with the youth in the cities wanting to immitate the youth of america, rather than be australians. I don't have anything against america, or any other nation, but I think it's a shame that we are loosing our 'beauty/bonza/bottler mate' attitude.

Thank goodness that our country people are still as okker as they come!
[nq:2]In article (Email Removed), Harvey Van Sickle (Email Removed) writes Don't be mistaken in thinking of the Scots language as just "the english of Scotland".[/nq]
[nq:1]Where on earth was it even remotely suggested that "Scots English" was to be taken to mean "Scots"? In the ... spoken in Scotland which is not a variety of English. ~~snip rest of explanation about the existence of another language~~[/nq]

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