"Attempts...(no police intervention)"

Question

Attempts involve the intention to commit the act and the taking place of the act if there was no police intervention.

Hi all

I am not sure if I should phrase the italicised part of the sentence this way.

Does it convey this meaning?

...the act would have taken place if the police did not intervene.

Thank you

PBF

Mister Micawber · Accepted Answer

.
It could probably be clearer:

Attempts involve the intention to commit the act as well as the act itself if there was no police intervention.

Peaceblinkfriend · Answer

Thanks Mister Micawber.

I agree that 's clearer and also less drawn out.

PBF

RayH · Answer

PeaceblinkfriendAttempts involve the intention to commit the act and the taking place of the act if there was no police intervention.

This isn't clear. Are you defining "attempt"? If not you need to clarify your meaning with some context.

Peaceblinkfriend...the act would have taken place if the police did not intervene.

In any case the sentence as written does not convey this meaning.

Peaceblinkfriend · Answer

Thanks for your reply RayH.

RayH
PeaceblinkfriendAttempts involve the intention to commit the act and the taking place of the act if there was no police intervention.
This isn't clear. Are you defining "attempt"? If not you need to clarify your meaning with some context.

Yes, I am trying to define 'attempt'.
Peaceblinkfriend...the act would have taken place if the police did not intervene.
In any case the sentence as written does not convey this meaning.

Could you tell me how I should phrase it if I wanted to convey this meaning?

Thanks again

PBF

Clive · Answer

Hi,

Attempts involve the intention to commit the act and the taking place of the act if there was no police intervention.

Why do you have to talk about 'police intervention'? 'Intervention' may involve preventing or simply modifying the act. In other words, 'intervention' does not tell us whether or not the act was completed. Thus, what does this add to the explanation?

How about "Attempts" include the intention to commit the act, as well as the act itself.

Best wishes, Clive

Peaceblinkfriend · Answer

Thanks for the follow-up Clive.

I talked about 'police intervention' because in Australia, apparently the prosecutor has the responsibility to prove that the criminal act would have taken place if the police did not intervene. Moreover, the closer an arrest takes place to the performing of a crimial act, the easier it is for the prosecutor to prove attempt. So the police might be hiding behind a tree and not make an arrest until the burlgar takes the first blow at the window. This is also another resaon why I included 'police intervention'; to emphasize this component of the crime. I thought 'intervention' would imply an arrest so used it in the sentence. Is this way of thinking correct?

Thanks again

PBF

Clive · Answer

Hi,
Attempts involve the intention to commit the act and the taking place of the act if there was no police intervention.

It seems to me that the legal issues are more tricky here than the English, and need clarification before the correct English can be determined.
For example, your original sentence above seems to have two parts.The first part, ie Attempts involve the intention to commit the act suggests to me that the simple intention is considered a crime.
eg If I think to myself, 'I'm going to kill Tom', is that a crime?
And how on earth do you go about proving 'intention?

Best wishes, Clive

Peaceblinkfriend · Answer

Thanks for your follow-up Clive.

I have only a scant knowledge of the legal system although I am learning about it right now at school. So I will try my best to explain the legal aspects of 'attempt' and hopefully we can come up with the correct English.

The simple intention to commit a criminal act is not a crime because the police will also have to prove that the accused would have successfully commited the act if they did not intervene and thus thwarting the act. This element of crime is known as 'actus reus' which is defined as 'a guilty or wrongful act or failure to act'. The other element of crime, mens rea, is the 'deliberate intention to commit the act'. With serious crimes like murder and burglary, both the guilty act (actus reus) and the guilty mind (mens reas) must be proved beyond all reasonable doubt by the prosecutor.

If you merely think to yourself that you are going to kill Tom without telling it to anybody or taking any actions towards murdering Tom then, no, you won't find youself in police custody

. However, if you have been following Tom around, noting all his daily routines, purchasing a gun and a box of bullets and eventually turning up at his door steps only to find yourself surrounded by police then, yes, you will be arrested with attempted murder

. Note that telling Tom you are going to kill him may end up with you being charged with assault because you are threatening to cause physical harm to him.

The prosecutor might tell the court about the extensive preparation that the accused has gone through towards committing the crime to prove the guilty mind; intention. If the accused was caught just when he or she was about to commit the criminal act, the tools found in his or her possession and the possible disguise he or she was wearing would make convincing evidence of the presence of 'deliberate intention to commit the act'. Since the standard of proof required in a criminal case is 'beyond all reasonable doubt', the jury can reach a gulity verdict if, in their mind, there is no question that the accused is gulity. Of course, this is also where the 'debate' comes in; the accused's lawyer would do whatever he or she can to disprove this but ultimately the burden of proof lies within the police/prosecutor as the accused is presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

This is generally the case in countries where the English common law prevails.

Hope what I said makes sense.

PBF

Clive · Answer

Hi,

OK, that's interesting.

Now, do you want to take another try at writing what you want us to check? You might want to consider using two or more sentences instead of one.

Clive

"Attempts...(no police intervention)"

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