A/the with propert names

Question

Hi!I've had a lesson on a/the recently with my teacher who is native, and he told some things about proper names that pretty much puzzled me because it's been one of the clearest rules I read. Please look at the following examples (they're not exact, I'm writing them from memory), in the parenthesis I've put the teacher's explanations: They bought a Van Gogh at an auction (a Van Gogh means a painting of his)   There's a Lucy Brown to see you. She doesn't have an appointment and I have no clue who she is. ("a" because nurse doesn't know who she is, she saw her for the first time)  Are we talking about the John Smith who was the leader of the Labour Party? ("the" because we're talking about the exact person) We gathered here to say good-bye to the late Brian O'Neil. Could you please tell me if this is actually correct and why?

JohnParis · Accepted Answer

Hello uj2 - I can understand your confusion.

Please permit me to add to your teacher's explanations.

uj2
They bought a Van Gogh at an auction (a Van Gogh means a painting of his) Yes, in this case "a Van Gogh" is the provenance of the painting. Much like you would say "we bought a vintage Cadillac" or "he owns a Steinway Grand Piano".
There's a Lucy Brown to see you. She doesn't have an appointment and I have no clue who she is. ("a" because nurse doesn't know who she is, she saw her for the first time) This too is correct but it's very outdated and somewhat perjorative. It sounds as if the nurse is announcing that "there is a leper here to see you". The nurse could just as easily have said "Lucy Brown to see you." "Who is she? I have no idea, sir."
Are we talking about the John Smith who was the leader of the Labour Party? ("the" because we're talking about the exact person) Again, correct. But, the name John Smith is an extremely common name. In any given city at any given time there must be hundreds of John Smith's - each with a different profession. But there was definitely only one John Smith that was a member of the Labour Party.
We gathered here to say good-bye to the late Brian O'Neil. You guessed it - correct too. But, your teacher should have explained that the phrase "the late" (in this context) means "the recently deceased". The person that is speaking could just as easily have said "We are gathered here to say good-bye to Brian O'Neil." Obviously he's dead - he's in the box right in front of you! Or, if it's a memorial service to honor his memory that is being held after his funeral, everyone in the room already knows that poor Brian is dead. Could you imagine anyone saying "what, Brian died?" Highly unlikely.

I hope this helps.

John

Uj2 · Answer

Thank you, John. It's just that these cases aren't mentioned in any of my textbooks.

This too is correct but it's very outdated and somewhat perjorative. It sounds as if the nurse is announcing that "there is a leper here to see you".

I kind of don't get how is "a Lucy Brown" equal to "a leper". Maybe you mean it's like saying "there is some Lucy Brown", like, derogatorily referencing a person, like she is not of any importance?

But, the name John Smith is an extremely common name. In any given city at any given time there must be hundreds of John Smith's - each with a different profession. But there was definitely only one John Smith that was a member of the Labour Party.

So, is it possible either way? Both with and without article?

But, your teacher should have explained that the phrase "the late" (in this context) means "the recently deceased".

Yes, that was his explanation. I understood that it was some kind of idiom, "the late", and it's not used without article.

JohnParis · Answer

uj2Thank you, John. It's just that these cases aren't mentioned in any of my textbooks.

This too is correct but it's very outdated and somewhat perjorative. It sounds as if the nurse is announcing that "there is a leper here to see you".
I kind of don't get how is "a Lucy Brown" equal to "a leper". Maybe you mean it's like saying "there is some Lucy Brown", like, derogatorily referencing a person, like she is not of any importance? That is exactly what I mean - bravo! By using the article "a" before her name it makes it sound derogatory/perjorative.

But, the name John Smith is an extremely common name. In any given city at any given time there must be hundreds of John Smith's - each with a different profession. But there was definitely only one John Smith that was a member of the Labour Party.
So, is it possible either way? Both with and without article? I always prefer without the article. It's more contemporary and it's correct English.

But, your teacher should have explained that the phrase "the late" (in this context) means "the recently deceased".
Yes, that was his explanation. I understood that it was some kind of idiom, "the late", and it's not used without article. The expression "the late " should not be used at all. It is redundant. Everyone knows that the man is dead.

A/the with propert names

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