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Usenet Posted 19 years ago
Usage

A/the with post-modification

Hello there,
I've been tripped up in class by teaching some of the "rules" of article usage. My first mistake was saying that one should use "the" when the noun is followed by a non-partitive of-phrase, eg:
"the behaviour of monkeys"
"the growth of the plants"
vs
"a bottle of beer" (partitive)
"a number of questions"
However, this does not hold true. So why do we say:

"the behaviour of monkeys"
but
"a knowledge of physics (is necessary)"
"an understanding of the factors which..."
and
"Computer-support can provide ease of diagram generation"

Is it to do with qualities of the noun?
My second mistake was saying that we use "the" with second mention. However, it's context-dependent of course. In the passage below, 2nd & 3rd mentions use "a". Presumably this is to do with specificity - ie, the questionnaire is not specified at any point.
"In Case Study 1, which acted as a pilot study, three types of questionnaire were tried: a self-completion questionnaire, an interview-based questionnaire and a questionnaire plus a group discussion. An interview-based questionnaire was considered most appropriate for rich qualitative feedback along with obtaining an unbiased rating of each diagram. Consequently, Case Study 2 and 3 adopted only an interview-based questionnaire."
Does it all come down to some hard-to-pin-down notion of definiteness, or are there some useful guidelines I can give to my students?

Thanks,
Helen
  

Top answer

[nq:1]Hello there, I've been tripped up in class by teaching some of the "rules" of article usage. My first mistake ... [/nq] No, you were right the first time.

  • [nq:1]Hello there, I've been tripped up in class by teaching some of the "rules" of article usage.
  • My first mistake ...
  • [/nq] No, you were right the first time.
  • "A knowledge of" is partitive.
  • Presumably you don't intend to imply that it is the totality of all that is known about any given subject.
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12 Answers
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[nq:1]Hello there, I've been tripped up in class by teaching some of the "rules" of article usage. My first mistake ... the factors which..." and "Computer-support can provide ease of diagram generation" Is it to do with qualities of the noun?[/nq]
No, you were right the first time. "A knowledge of" is partitive. Presumably you don't intend to imply that it is the totality of all that is known
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[nq:1] Consider yourself untripped![/nq]
Thank you so much! Gosh, all seems so clear now.. I'd carve a star on your shell but you'd probably prefer it unblemished.

Helen
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[nq:1]Had the intention been to say that A was trialled,[/nq]
"Trialled"? Ick!
When a person, place, or thing is subjected to trial, it is "tried."

(BTW, "triage," pronounced TRY-idge, is a fine old English word. It sounds pretententious to me to hear TREE-azh, and I hate to hear it suggested that it comes from a root meaning "three.")

Marshall Price of Miami
Known to
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[nq:2]Had the intention been to say that A was trialled,[/nq]
[nq:1]"Trialled"? Ick! When a person, place, or thing is subjected to trial, it is "tried."[/nq]
Except when it's trialled:

You can also get more than a million Google hits on a search for "trialled." It may be jargon, but you can't say it isn't a word in current use.
[nq:1](BTW, "triage," pronounced TRY-idge, is a
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[nq:2](BTW, "triage," pronounced TRY-idge, is a fine old English word.[/nq]
Oui, bien s=FBr! Bien connu chez les rosbifs depuis... uh... 1066?
[nq:2]It sounds pretententious to me to hear TREE-azh,[/nq]
[nq:1]And yet, that's the standard American pronunciation. What part of England is Miami in?[/nq]
[nq:2]and I hate to hear it suggested that it comes from a root meaning "three.")[/
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[nq:1]Are you going to go through the entire archive of AEU responding to anything you feel like responding to? You're going to fatigue a lot of people in addition to yourself.[/nq]
No matter how many people disagree with what he's doing, I think he deserves an award for stamina. A couple of days on and he's still going strong, resurrecting those long-dead threads. Way to go, Marshall! Whoo, y
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[nq:2](BTW, "triage," pronounced TRY-idge, is a fine old English word.[/nq]
Oui, bien sûr! Bien connu chez les rosbifs depuis... uh... 1066?

Slightly OT - I am always slightly mystfied by those American phrase books which show the "ge" part of that pronunciation as "azh". I know I'm wrong, but it makes me think the reader is being advised to say
[nq:1]"triaze".[/nq]
How, accor
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[nq:1]Oui, bien sûr! Bien connu chez les rosbifs depuis... uh... 1066?[/nq]
Upper Midwestern born and bred, but I had a long stretch in Alabama in the middle:
Triage: Tree-azh (the "zh" has some other sound in there, but nothing as distinct as a "d".)
Garage: Gahr-azh (this one doesn't have that indefinable extra sound in the "zh".)
Mirage: Meer-azh (This one does have that not-qui
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[nq:2]"Trialled"? Ick![/nq]
[nq:1]Are you going to go through the entire archive of AEU responding to anything you feel like responding to? You're going to fatigue a lot of people in addition to yourself.[/nq]
It was just a touch of beginner's mania, to coin a phrase. I'll get over it in no time!
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[nq:1]Oui, bien sûr! Bien connu chez les rosbifs depuis... uh... 1066?[/nq]
[nq:2]And yet, that's the standard American pronunciation. What part of England is Miami in?[/nq]
[nq:1]Tout à fait ! Trier - to sort; to sift; to select, pick. On fait le tri. In the Bristol ... word. This is standard throughout the health professions, and is standard usage in the UK as far as I know.[/nq]
I s

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