"As were most of her friends"

Question

In "Practical English Usage", Michael Swan also deals with inversion ("298 inversion (1): auxiliary verb etc before subject") and posposition (1) ("299 inversion (2): whole verb before subject). Following is paragraph
298.6 (where he deals with inversion, not posposition):

QUOTE ("Practical English Usage", Michael Swan, OUP) Inversion sometimes happens after /as/, /than/ and emphasising /so/ in a literary style:
She was very religious, as were most of her friends.

City dwellers have a higher death rate than do country people.

So* ridicolous *did she look that everybody burst out laughing. UNQUOTE
I have doubts about the first and the second example being inversions, and not pospositions. Here is an example similar to the first one Swan supplies:
"In 1953 she got married, as did John and Martha".

How would you put "as did John and Martha" into the past perfect, wishing to maintain the same structure?

(1) As far as I know, these are inversions:
"Not only did I not approve of it, ..."
"Had I not known, ..."
"Not until midnight had he been able to..."
and these are pospositions:
"On the grass sat an enormous frog" ("Practical English Usage")

"Could it be that written on his hand was some fearful secret of sin, some blood-red sign of crime?" ("Lord Arthur Savile's Crime", Oscar Wilde)
"There are five books"

Bye, FB

Nasalization is just a part of life.
(Joey DoWop Dee on it.cultura.linguistica.inglese)

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]In "Practical English Usage", Michael Swan also deals with inversion ("298 inversion (1): auxiliary verb etc before subject") and posposition ... Martha". How would you put "as did John and Martha" into the past perfect, wishing to maintain the same structure?[/nq]
"In 1953 she had gotten married, as had John and Martha." I don't see a consistent difference, except negative/positive, between the two sets of examples below, but maybe a grammarian will enlighten us. CDB

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[nq:2]"In 1953 she got married, as did John and Martha". ... into the past perfect, wishing to maintain the same structure?[/nq]
[nq:1]"In 1953 she had gotten married, as had John and Martha." I don't see a consistent difference, except negative/positive, between the two sets of examples below, but maybe a grammarian will enlighten us. CDB[/nq]
I suppose you could also say "had done", instead of only "have", but where would you place "done"?
Bye, FB

Locked from the inside. That can only mean one thing, and I don't know what it is.
(Murder by Death)

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"FB" <>
[nq:1]City dwellers have a higher death rate than do country people.[/nq]
I always assumed that the death rate ran 100% for everybody. I don't live in the city or the country, how do we suburbanites do,?

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FB wrote on 04 Sep 2004:
[nq:1]In "Practical English Usage", Michael Swan also deals with inversion ("298 inversion (1): auxiliary verb etc before subject") and posposition ... she* look that everybody burst out laughing. UNQUOTE I have doubts about the first and the second example being inversions,[/nq]
Normal word order: "She was very religious, as most of her friends were." Where's the problem seeing that this is an inversion?
[nq:1]and not pospositions.[/nq]
I assume this is supposed to be "postpositions":
"A postposition is a grammatical particle that expresses some sort of relationship between the preceding noun or pronoun (its object) and another part of the sentence; a postpositional phrase functions as an adjective or adverb. Postpositions are the equivalents of prepositions in languages where the object precedes the word, such as Japanese." http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Postposition

So you mean "postpositional phrase". That, however, does not mean there is no inversion of subject and verb in the postpositional phrase. The standard word order would be:
"She was as religious as most of her friends (were)."
[nq:1]Here is an example similar to the first one Swan supplies: "In 1953 she got married, as did John and ... midnight had he been able to..." and these are pospositions: "On the grass sat an enormous frog" ("Practical English Usage")[/nq]
That's one way of looking at it. Another way is to say that the adverbial phrase "on the grass" has been fronted or topicalized and that the subject and verb have been inverted. One could also say "On the grass, an enormous frog sat."

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.

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FB wrote on 04 Sep 2004:
[nq:2]"In 1953 she had gotten married, as had John and ... below, but maybe a grammarian will enlighten us. CDB[/nq]
[nq:1]I suppose you could also say "had done", instead of only "have",[/nq]
Not in AmE, you couldn't:
"In 1953 she had gotten married, as John and Martha had done."
Maybe in BrE.
[nq:1]but where would you place "done"?[/nq]
As above.

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.

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[nq:1]Not in AmE, you couldn't:[/nq]
Why not? I've said it.
[nq:1]Maybe in BrE.[/nq]
I don't believe the British say "gotten," but rather "got."

Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

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[nq:1]So you mean "postpositional phrase". That, however, does not mean there is no inversion of subject and verb in the postpositional phrase. The standard word order would be: "She was as religious as most of her friends (were)."[/nq]
What I wanted to say is that I was not sure "She was religious, as were most of her friends" was an inversion, and not a postpositional phrase. Since there's just one verb, "were", *I* cannot tell whether that is a postpositional phrase or an inversion. If there were an auxiliary, it would be clear:
"So wrote Henry James in..."
vs
"So ridicolous did* she *look that everybody burst out laughing".
[nq:1]That's one way of looking at it. Another way is to say that the adverbial phrase "on the grass" has been fronted or topicalized and that the subject and verb have been inverted. One could also say "On the grass, an enormous frog sat."[/nq]
Of course, but the whole verb and the subject have been "inverted".
Bye, FB

Se dico "siedi!" manca l'oggetto.
Siedo chi? Lei o me?
(da it.cultura.linguistica.italiano)

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FB wrote on 04 Sep 2004:
[nq:2]So you mean "postpositional phrase". That, however, does not mean ... "She was as religious as most of her friends (were)."[/nq]
[nq:1]What I wanted to say is that I was not sure "She was religious, as were most of her friends" ... cannot tell whether that is a postpositional phrase or an inversion. If there were an auxiliary, it would be clear:[/nq]
It's definitely an inversion of subject and verb, not uncommon in such postposed phrases.
[nq:1]"So wrote Henry James in..."[/nq]
Put this into past perfect and you can see that it is inversion:

"So had Henry James written in..."
[nq:1]vs "So ridicolous did* she *look that everybody burst out laughing".[/nq]
[nq:2]That's one way of looking at it. Another way is ... could also say "On the grass, an enormous frog sat."[/nq]
[nq:1]Of course, but the whole verb and the subject have been "inverted".[/nq]
Baa, baa, black sheep,
have you any wool?
That's an inversion of the subject and verb. It's a bit old-fashioned now, but I still use this inversion sometimes when I ask questions. I believe that this type of inversion was not uncommon in Middle and Old English questions, but I'm no expert on those two.

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.

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On 4 Sep 2004 01:36:02 GMT, CyberCypher

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just a test

"As were most of her friends"

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