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Anonymous Posted 15 years ago
Grammar
Am E -- Past Perfect & Reported Speech
Question #1:
This is not the first time I hear the following construction being used on the TV news in the U.S. But, there is something really consufing about the usage of the past perfect tense here:
"The N.Y. State United Teachers Union had sued the Board of Regents last spring, after the board decided to
allow up to 40 percent of a teacher's evaluation to be based on scores."
Isn't that the decision "to allow up to..." precedes the suing action? I would've written it as: "... Union sued, after the board had decided to allow up..." Is there a mistake here?
Source: NY1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dTzmMVM0bfEJ:www.ny1.com/content/news_beats/education/145718/state-supreme-court-blocks-attempt-to-revamp-teacher-evaluations+ny1+sued+the+Board+of+Regents+last+spring,+the+board&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com
Question #2:
In the same text:
"A union representative said the ruling is good for students and teachers." Isn't it supposed to be: "A union representative said the ruling WAS good for students and teachers" following the reported speech rules.
Another case:
This is not the first time I hear the following construction being used on the TV news in the U.S. But, there is something really consufing about the usage of the past perfect tense here:
"The N.Y. State United Teachers Union had sued the Board of Regents last spring, after the board decided to
allow up to 40 percent of a teacher's evaluation to be based on scores."
Isn't that the decision "to allow up to..." precedes the suing action? I would've written it as: "... Union sued, after the board had decided to allow up..." Is there a mistake here?
Source: NY1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dTzmMVM0bfEJ:www.ny1.com/content/news_beats/education/145718/state-supreme-court-blocks-attempt-to-revamp-teacher-evaluations+ny1+sued+the+Board+of+Regents+last+spring,+the+board&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com
Question #2:
In the same text:
"A union representative said the ruling is good for students and teachers." Isn't it supposed to be: "A union representative said the ruling WAS good for students and teachers" following the reported speech rules.
Another case:
Top answer
Y. State United Teachers Union had sued the Board of Regents last spring, after the board decided to allow up to 40 percent of a teacher's evaluation to be based on scores. "-- What has happened here is that 'had sued' predates another past event in the greater context, while the verb in the dependent clause ('decided') remains in the simple past (a common phenomenon: only the main clause will normally take the past perfect.
- Y.
- State United Teachers Union had sued the Board of Regents last spring, after the board decided to allow up to 40 percent of a teacher's evaluation to be based on scores.
- "-- What has happened here is that 'had sued' predates another past event in the greater context, while the verb in the dependent clause ('decided') remains in the simple past (a common phenomenon: only the main clause will normally take the past perfect.
- - - It could be, but if the general idea is that the ruling is still good now, then the reported verb need not regress.
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8 Answers
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"The N.Y. State United Teachers Union had sued the Board of Regents last spring, after the board decided to
allow up to 40 percent of a teacher's evaluation to be based on scores."-- What has happened here is that 'had sued' predates another past event in the greater context, while the verb in the dependent clause ('decided') remains in the simple pas
allow up to 40 percent of a teacher's evaluation to be based on scores."-- What has happened here is that 'had sued' predates another past event in the greater context, while the verb in the dependent clause ('decided') remains in the simple pas
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Thank you for your answers! The complete excerpt in the first question is as follows:
"The State Supreme Court ruled on the side of the city teachers today, saying that according to an existing law only 20 percent of teachers' evaluations can be based on standardized test scores.
The N.Y. State United Teachers Union had sued the Board of Regents last spring, after the bo
"The State Supreme Court ruled on the side of the city teachers today, saying that according to an existing law only 20 percent of teachers' evaluations can be based on standardized test scores.
The N.Y. State United Teachers Union had sued the Board of Regents last spring, after the bo
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Yes. The court ruled today; the teachers had sued last spring.
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Mister Micawber"The N.Y. State United Teachers Union had sued the Board of Regents last spring, after the board decided to
allow up to 40 percent of a teacher's evaluation to be based on scores."-- What has happened here is that 'had sued' predates another past event in the greater context, while the verb in the dependent clause ('decided') remains in
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Past perfect is not needed twice. Native speakers do not usually regress the dependent verb in the past, just as in the future: 'I'll tell you when I see you tomorrow'. Nevertheless, many writers do use the past perfect the 2nd time as well.
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By the way, let's say there was another sentence after this-
It all started with a 12-year-old boy who came home from school very upset. His teacher had told his class that ___ and ____ were alternatives to __.
- what tense would you use for it?
eg-
His teacher had told his class that ___ and ____ were alternatives to
It all started with a 12-year-old boy who came home from school very upset. His teacher had told his class that ___ and ____ were alternatives to __.
- what tense would you use for it?
eg-
His teacher had told his class that ___ and ____ were alternatives to
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Honestly? --
His teacher had told his class that ___ and ____ were alternatives to __ and that...
His teacher had told his class that ___ and ____ were alternatives to __ and that...
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