All manner of balls and sockets

Question

Hello,I need a little help with a passage from a book I'm reading.- [Two old men walk into the Station, they look up at the departures board and realize they have only two minutes to catch their train.] We started to run. Not run, but move in such a way that two people who've worn away all manner of balls and sockets move if they want to catch a train.a) What does the phrase in boldface mean?b) Doesn't the phrase in blue sound a little odd here? [...] in such a way that two people [...] move if they want to catch a train. That doesn't sound right to me.Could you please help me?Thank you.H.

Khoff · Accepted Answer

I think that knees and elbows are called "ball and socket joints" -- he's saying that they're trying to run, but they are so old that their knees and other joints don't work very well.

Henry74 · Answer

khoffI think that knees and elbows are called "ball and socket joints"

I see. Thank you.
I'm not entirely sure why the phrase all manner is also featuring in there, but I get the meaning now.

H.

CalifJim · Answer

Henry74move in such a way that two people who've worn away all manner of ***** and sockets move if they want to catch a train.

move in such a way that [two people who've worn away all manner of ***** and sockets] move if they want to catch a train.
~
move in the same way that [they] move if they want to catch a train. (i.e., not very smoothly)
___

two people who've worn away [all manner of] ***** and sockets
~
two people who have experienced degeneration of [all sorts of] joints (of their bodies)
_________

all manner of is rather literary. You are not likely to hear it in an ordinary conversation.

CJ

Henry74 · Answer

CalifJimmove in such a way that [...] ~ move in the same way that [...]

I realize I should have been more explicit in my question.
I understand that that was the intended meaning. What I don't understand is the use of such a way to convey that meaning.
Here's my understanding of the phrase:
- She moved in such a [optional adjective] way that people would turn everytime she walked into a room.
- Paintings were arranged in such a way as to give viewers an historical perspective on the painter's maturing abilities.
[I think a that-construction could also be used here: Paintings were arranaged in such a way that they would give viewers...]

What follows the phrase in such a way seems to be an effect of what precedes it.
But since you didn't object to the author's use of the phrase the way she did, I can but conclude that I am missing a piece of the puzzle here.

H.

CalifJim · Answer

Henry74I understand that that was the intended meaning.

Oh. OK. Good.

Henry74Here's my understanding of the phrase:- She moved in such a [optional adjective] way that people would turn everytime she walked into a room.- Paintings were arranged in such a way as to give viewers an historical perspective on the painter's maturing abilities. What follows the phrase in such a way seems to be an effect of what precedes it.

Yes, yes, yes. 'in such a way as to' or 'in such a way that'. Both are used. Also, for the 'paintings' examples:

Paintings were arranged so as to give ...
Paintings were arranged so that they would give ...

In the other case, which has an agent subject (she), so that changes the meaning.

She moved in such a way that people would ... (The reaction happened whether she intended it or not.)
She moved so that people would ... (Her way of moving was a deliberate attempt to create the effect described.)

Henry74But since you didn't object to the author's use of the phrase the way she did, I can but conclude that I am missing a piece of the puzzle here.

Hmmm. I wonder what the missing piece could be.

Does the use of 'such a' with a noun bother you? Were you, for example, expecting 'a' to come first: 'a such ...'?

I have never heard of such an idea. (an idea like that)
Such a bridge cannot be built on that kind of soil. (a bridge like that)
________________________

Then there's this usage (such that), related to so that. Does so that puzzle you as well?

Harold is such a complainer that he has no friends. (so hard to please that)
The ancient statue was such a treasure that it was never displayed in public. (so valuable that)

CJ

Henry74 · Answer

I believe I have managed to isolate the source of my perplexity.

In both
a) Harold is such a complainer that he has no friends and
b) Paintings were arranged so that they would give ...

that is functioning as a subordinator (?) - I'm sorry, I'm not sure my grammar vocabulary is appropriate.
What I mean to say is that in both sentences, the sentence following that can be seen as a consequence of the one preceding.

In my original sentence that is instead functioning as a sort of repetition of the word 'way'.
c) we moved in such a way, the way people [...] move if they want to catch a train or
d) we moved in such a way, like the way people move...
The sentence following that is not a consequence as much as a description of the one preceding.

This sounds closer to your bridge example, in which 'Such a bridge = A bridge like that'.

So my problem is, how can you insert that without triggering a causal correlation, as in a) or b)?

Would you say
e) We saw such a bridge that cannot be built on that kind of soil.

to mean
f) We saw such a bridge, one that cannot... or
g) We saw such a bridge, the like of which cannot...?

That, to my ear, is what my original sentence does. It sounds to me as though it is saying that the way people [...] move when they want to catch a train is a consequence of the fact that they move.

I hope I managed to explain myself.

H.

KJinCali79 · Answer

To me, this is literary phrasing to emphasize that they really could not run due to their age and its effect on their joints, but they were moving as hurriedly as they possibly could in their condition. Replacing “that” with “as” might have clarified this intended meaning.

“Not run, but move in such a way [as] two people who've worn away all manner of ***** and sockets move if they want to catch a train.”

CalifJim · Answer

Henry74a) Harold is such a complainer that he has no friends and b) Paintings were arranged so that they would give ... in both sentences, the sentence following that can be seen as a consequence of the one preceding.

True.

Henry74c) we moved in such a way, the way people [...] move if they want to catch a train ord) we moved in such a way, like the way people move...The sentence following that is not a consequence as much as a description of the one preceding.

True.
______

So the puzzle has to do with the difference, or rather, the two usages of such ... that ....

Henry74It sounds to me as though it is saying that the way people [...] move when they want to catch a train is a consequence of the fact that they move.

Yes. Now I see what you mean, though I confess that I had never thought of it before you brought it to my attention. Your original example would seem to be anomalous to anyone who believed that the that-clause always necessarily shows a consequence (in a so ... that ... or such ... that ... construction). I'm now beginning to wonder how often such a substitutes for the same or simply for the, and I don't think it can be very often. I'm inclined to think that it almost requires a trick of prose — the use of a lot of words to distract the reader's attention from the oddity of the usage of such— to make the structure convincing.

The committee proceeded with the election in the way (that) they had always done it. OK.
The committee proceeded with the election in the same way (that) they had always done it. OK.
The committee proceeded with the election in such a way that they had always done it. ??? Almost certainly not OK.

In order to research the question adequately, we would need to gather many more examples, have native speakers make judgments on each, and then try to find what factor( s) separate the accepted uses from the rejected ones.

(I suspect, without evidence, mind you, that it also has something to do with how general the information in the that-clause is. The closer to a universal or general observation, the more convincing the structure.)

Henry74I hope I managed to explain myself.

Indeed you did — well enough that I understood your point, anyway. So let's not argue with success.

CJ

Henry74 · Answer

I was relieved when I saw that you almost certainly rejected your third commitee example. That means that I'm not crazy!

Since I don't have a native's intuition to guide me in deciding how odd that would sound on a case-by-case basis, I think I will not include that substitution in my repertoire for the time being.
Still, I'll make a mental note that it might indeed occur. Perhaps in time I will collect enough evidence to help me sharpen my judgement.

Thanks again Jim!

H.

All manner of balls and sockets

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