albeit

Question

She says "His father sent a very positive message to his son-~~that is's Okay to fail~~-and may explain why he rarely got discouraged if an experiment didn't work out." In addition to teaching him what wouldn't work, she says, failed experiments taught him the much more valuable lesson of what would work---albeit in a different context.

About 'in a different context', which does it refer to; '(what would) work' or '(failed experiments) taught'?

Nona the brit · Accepted Answer

I think it refers to what would work.

Taka · Answer

Glad your answer is the same as mine, nona . (The latter is the answer of my book written by a Japanese).

Thank you!

Chenpv · Answer

Taka she says, failed experiments taught him the much more valuable lesson of what would work---albeit in a different context.

I dont know if I get it right:

She says, successful experiments would teach him valuable lesson of what would work. Comparing with successful experiment, failed experiments would teach him the much more valuable lesson which would lead him to success. So learning from the failure is another way of getting to know what would work.

Clive · Answer

Hi guys,

She says "His father sent a very positive message to his son-~~that is's Okay to fail~~-and may explain why he rarely got discouraged if an experiment didn't work out." In addition to teaching him what wouldn't work, she says, failed experiments taught him the much more valuable lesson of what would work---albeit in a different context.

I think it refers to (ie modifies) 'taught'. Let's move the phrase to make this clearer.

She says "His father sent a very positive message to his son-~~that is's Okay to fail~~-and may explain why he rarely got discouraged if an experiment didn't work out." In addition to teaching him what wouldn't work, she says, failed experiments taught him, albeit in a different context, the much more valuable lesson of what would work.

Best wishes, Clive

Davkett · Answer

I think I'm with Nona on this--that it modifies 'what would work'.

It seems to me that the father is saying to his son that the real value of failed experiments is that they can teach you what will work in other contexts.

MrPedantic · Answer

1. What failed taught him, in a different context, what succeeds.

2. What failed taught him what succeeds in a different context.

I'm a little puzzled here. If the context is different, the failure and success relate to different things. How can one kind of failure teach you something about another kind of success?

"I failed my driving test. But it taught me how to marinade hare's feet successfully."

MrP

CalifJim · Answer

I'm sorry about your driving test.

And tasty as marinated hare's feet can be, I don't think I'm particularly puzzled by this, although I take quite a different approach to the original quote, interpreting it as follows (and I hope I’m not stretching the point too far). As for the idea of a "different context", it’s not only a different context, but a context on a higher level.

In addition to teaching him what wouldn’t work (in the context of an experiment and its results), his failures (in the context of experiments) taught him what would work (in the (different) context of his life’s pursuits), a much more valuable lesson, (namely, that one must continue to work undiscouraged even in the face of failure).

I failed my driving test. But, because of the positive message I got from my father, I was not discouraged. I practiced driving, and took the test again. I may fail one driving test, but I succeed in that I am not discouraged and am always willing to stick to a task.

Possible?

CJ

Clive · Answer

Hi,

I think that, as often happens, we are trying to make sense out of something that we would, ourselves, have written differently.

She says "His father sent a very positive message to his son-~~that is's Okay to fail~~-and may explain why he rarely got discouraged if an experiment didn't work out." In addition to teaching him, albeit in a different context, what wouldn't work, she says, failed experiments taught him the much more valuable lesson of what would work.

My interpretation of what constitutes the two different contexts is this. One context consists of the father sending the son a positive message. The other consists of the son, probably later and independently of his father, experiencing experiments that fail.

Let's also consider the punctuation. A comma before 'albeit' would signal that the clause is intended to modify 'would work'. On the other hand, the triple dashes indicate that what follows is an informal kind of afterthought, only loosely linked to the whole previous thought that has been expressed. I don't think such an afterthought should be seen as tightly modifying only the few words that immediately precede it.

When we speak, afterthoughts are necessary because we can't go back and edit what we have said. In writing, however, we can, and I think that in this case the writer would have been well advised to, in order to make his meaning clearer.

Best wishes, Clive

Taka · Answer

For your information, the text is about T. Edison and his father's strong influence on him, and the sentence is followed by this.

...what ruined Edison's underwater-telegraphy experiments is exactly what made his telephone transmitter such a triumph.

I think nona and davkett's interpretation--by the way, how should I write this? Should it be 'nona's and davkett's interpretation' instead?--is correct.

Pieanne · Answer

I would opt for the second possibility - unless you consider Nona & Davkett work in a team.-  (Please excuse my intrusion in this thread)

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