Adjective modify adjective

Question

Hello again -I just came across this rule from a grammar book."Do not use an adjective to modify another adjective" I wonder if it stands, given the facts that we see so many living examples..like..hmm.. bold new policy, I could recall from my morning reading of an investment report.With great thanks to all that advise and join the discussion. Kevin Lamb

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Hello again - I just came across this rule from a grammar book. "Do not use an adjective to modify another adjective"[/nq]
A word modifying an adjective is by definition an adverb, so the advice is useless. It means not to use a word having the form of an adjective when the form of the adjective and of the corresponding adverb differ.
[nq:1]I wonder if it stands, given the facts that we see so many living examples..like..hmm.. bold new policy, I could recall from my morning reading of an investment report.[/nq]
That is not an example, living or otherwise, of modifying an adjective with an adjective. Adjectives commonly modifying noun phrases. "New policy" is a noun phrase. "Bold" modifies "new policy", telling you want kind of "new policy" it is. For "bold" to be an adjective modifying an adjective, it would be telling us an attribute of "new". If you can imagine that that would mean something, feel free to explain.
[nq:1]With great thanks to all that advise and join the discussion.[/nq]
Thanks for all the fish.

Usenet · Answer

"The dark green leaves..."
What part of speech is "dark", and what is it modifying?
[nq:1]Adjectives commonly modifying noun phrases. "New policy" is a noun phrase. "Bold" modifies "new policy", telling you want kind of ... be telling us an attribute of "new". If you can imagine that that would mean something, feel free to explain.[/nq]
[nq:2]With great thanks to all that advise and join the discussion.[/nq]
[nq:1]Thanks for all the fish.[/nq]
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]A word modifying an adjective is by definition an adverb, ... living or otherwise, of modifying an adjective with an adjective.[/nq]
[nq:1]"The dark green leaves..." What part of speech is "dark", and what is it modifying?[/nq]
Well, if it modifies "green" it is an adverb, and if it modifies "leaves", it is an adjective. But I like what Martin said that an adjective can modify a noun phrase. Thus, when "dark" modifies "green leaves", it is an adjective.
It gets its name from its function. "Very", on the other hand, modifies only the "green" part. "Very green leaves". I think we can use "very leaves", but then the meaning of "very" changes to mean "the leaves themselves".

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]"The dark green leaves..." What part of speech is "dark", and what is it modifying?[/nq]
[nq:1]Well, if it modifies "green" it is an adverb, and if it modifies "leaves", it is an adjective. But I like what Martin said that an adjective can modify a noun phrase. Thus, when "dark" modifies "green leaves", it is an adjective.[/nq]
Hmm. Would you say "The leaves are dark green" or "The green leaves are dark"? Seems to me that if dark is modifying anything, it's modifying "green" rather than "leaves". Presumably we have to define "dark green" as an adjectival phrase (or some other entity in its own right) to avoid transgressing the rule "Do not use an adjective to modify another adjective".
[nq:1]It gets its name from its function. "Very", on the other hand, modifies only the "green" part. "Very green leaves". I think we can use "very leaves", but then the meaning of "very" changes to mean "the leaves themselves".[/nq]
Les

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Well, if it modifies "green" it is an adverb, and ... Thus, when "dark" modifies "green leaves", it is an adjective.[/nq]
[nq:1]Hmm. Would you say "The leaves are dark green" or "The green leaves are dark"? Seems to me that if ... other entity in its own right) to avoid transgressing the rule "Do not use an adjective to modify another adjective".[/nq]
Ok. Divide how you will, the function of the modifier changes.

For a noun phrase, "dark" is an adjective (green leaves). In an adjectival phrase (dark green), "dark" as an adverb, modifying the adjective green. After all, within phrases, the individual words have their appropriate functions.
There are dark green leaves and light green leaves. Of course we can add the "correctifier" a hyphen. Dark-green and light-green leaves. (And very, and many, and large/small.)
No matter how the hairs are split, the darkness prevails.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2] Hmm. Would you say "The leaves are dark green" ... rule "Do not use an adjective to modify another adjective".[/nq]
[nq:1]Ok. Divide how you will, the function of the modifier changes. For a noun phrase, "dark" is an adjective (green ... green leaves. Of course we can add the "correctifier" a hyphen. Dark-green and light-green leaves. (And very, and many, and large/small.)[/nq]
And since the normal adverbial form of dark is darkly (cf. Martin Ambuhl's comment above), how would you explain to an ESL/EFL student that the normal expression is "dark green leaves" and not "darkly green leaves"? (A few examples of which you can find on the Internet):

(quote)
The rain seems imminent, but hesitant. Night has fallen fully and calms where it touches. My heart rate slows slightly and my breathing deepens. Every wind swell stirs the thousands of darkly green leaves that tremble above me . . . . waiting
(endquote)

[nq:1]No matter how the hairs are split, the darkness prevails.[/nq]
Coming up next: hairy dark green leaves that unfold only at night.

Les

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Hello again - I just came across this rule from a grammar book. "Do not use an adjective to modify another adjective"[/nq]
[nq:1]A word modifying an adjective is by definition an adverb,[/nq]
In general, yes, but what about "She was wearing a pure gold wedding ring"? You wouldn't say (at least I wouldn't)
*She was wearing a purely gold ring
and you could reword it to
She was wearing a wedding ring of pure gold
but not to
*She was wearing a pure wedding ring of gold
It seems to me, therefore, that "pure" has the form of an adjective and that it is qualifying another adjective. Cases like this seem to be rare, however.
I invented this example years ago to argue with someone who wanted me to replace "pure non-competitive inhibition" (a fairly standard term in biochemistry) with "purely non-competitive inhibition". He accepted my argument, but looking at it today I realize that the analogy is false, and that the reason for preferring "pure" in this case is that it qualifies the whole noun phrase.

athel

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]A word modifying an adjective is by definition an adverb,[/nq]
[nq:1]In general, yes, but what about "She was wearing a pure gold wedding ring"? You wouldn't say (at least I ... the form of an adjective and that it is qualifying another adjective. Cases like this seem to be rare, however.[/nq]
I agree that "pure" is an adjective modifying "gold" in this example, but I'd say "gold" is a noun being used to modify another noun, hardly something new in English. Is "steel" an adjective in "steel" ring? Change "gold" to "golden" and you have an adjective, but a "pure golden ring" is a "golden ring" that is "pure." And "purely golden ring," though perfectly grammatical and idiomatic, isn't the sort of thing I'd say with "pure gold ring" available.

Bob Lieblich
Who'd like some gold

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]In general, yes, but what about "She was wearing a pure gold wedding ring"? You wouldn't say (at least I wouldn't) *She was wearing a purely gold ring[/nq]
You wouldn't normally, but I can imagine contexts in which you might .. perhaps when describing a number of rings made from gold but in some cases decorated with jewels or with inlays of other metals. A ring lacking any such decoration might be described as "purely gold" (without making any comment on the purity of the gold).

In this case, of course, the construction is shortened from "a ring made purely of gold" rather than "a ring made of pure gold" ... so the "purely" refers to the (elided) "made of" rather than the "gold" or the "ring" itself so I agree with your point, but not your example.

Cheers,
Daniel.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]In general, yes, but what about "She was wearing a ... another adjective. Cases like this seem to be rare, however.[/nq]
[nq:1]I agree that "pure" is an adjective modifying "gold" in this example, but I'd say "gold" is a noun being ... "purely golden ring," though perfectly grammatical and idiomatic, isn't the sort of thing I'd say with "pure gold ring" available.[/nq]
What about the upthread-mentioned "dark green leaves"?

Les

Adjective modify adjective

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