Adjective + Attributive Noun + Noun

Question

Hi,So, this one has been the cause of many a grammatical headache for me lately. I'm referring to a compund of the form adj + att. noun + noun, and what I'm wondering is wether there are rules that dictates which of the nouns the adjective has to be understood as modifying, or if it is mostly a matter of usage.Here are some examples, and the troubles I'm having with them (or the likes of them).1 - Small truck driverDoes this mean the driver of a small truck or the small driver of a truck? In the absence of an established usage, as is the case for, say, small town people, is there a rule that tells me which way it has to be primarily understood, or can it indifferently mean either, depending on the context?2 - New client managementThis one could be different from the one above. I believe, fingers crossed, that it can only mean a new management of clients (i.e. a new way to manage clients). If so, how do I say management of new clients? I originally thought that this could be rendered as new clients' management, but then it occurred to me that this could actually be meaning something along the lines of the management (style) the new clients have adopted. Would new clients management (without the apostrophe) be grammatically accepted instead?3 - New Airlines policyThis is similar to the case above, but with a twist. The fact that the similar new Airlines' policy wouldn't indicate possession (i. e. it could be transformed into a sentence with for or by instead of of) would allow me to drop the apostrophe, thus making new policy for Airlines undistinguishable from policy for new Airlines. Am I wrong?4 - Brown leather jacketI know this usually means a leather jacket which is also brown, but again, are there grammatical reasons why it couldn't be meaning a jacket made of brown leather?Thank you for your invaluable help!H.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

Henry741 - Small truck driver
Does this mean the driver of a small truck or the small driver of a truck? In the absence of an established usage, as is the case for, say, small town people, is there a rule that tells me which way it has to be primarily understood, or can it indifferently mean either, depending on the context?

As you have probably already determined, expressions like small truck driver have no unequivocal inherent meaning absent a context.

My first guess is always [adj] [noun-noun]. If there is a well-known expression [adj-noun], then I might be inclined to guess a second time. Also, if the previous context mentions [adj-noun] (e.g., small trucks) a lot, I'd go with [adj-noun] [noun] ([small truck] [driver]). As far as I can determine, these guesses based on context are "the rules".

Hyphenation can help. Small town-people / Small-town people. Some writers use hyphens if they believe there's a problem with ambiguity. (Actually the first of these would more likely be Small townspeople, there being a word for this.)

There is no language in which no ambiguities occur. This happens to be an ambiguous pattern in English.

There can be ambiguities that go beyond two as well because even single words can have multiple meanings.

New client management.
1. a new way of managing clients [adj] [noun-noun]
2. a new team of managers for clients [adj] [noun-noun]
3. the management of new clients [adj-noun] [noun]

New airlines policy. [adj] [noun-noun] is the only sensible interpretation, in my opinion, unless (in conformance with my guidelines for a second guess, above) the article in which this occurs is an article about the establishment of new air travel companies and the laws that govern this.

Brown leather jacket.

Here's a case I call "a distinction without a difference". Here, for all practical purposes, [adj-noun][noun]=[adj][noun-noun].

A jacket made of brown leather has just as much leather and is just as brown as a leather jacket which is brown.
The only cases where you get in trouble with colors (and these are rare) are those where there is a special technical term [color-material], e.g., black ice remover, red tide detector.

CJ

Canadian45 · Answer

Henry741 - small truck driver It's not a sentence, so don't captialize the first letter.
.
Does this mean the driver of a small truck or the small driver of a truck? The way it is written, it means the second one.

The first meaning should be written as 'small-truck driver'.

In the absence of an established usage, as is the case for, say, small town people, is there a rule that tells me which way it has to be primarily understood, or can it indifferently mean either, depending on the context?
No, 'people living in small towns'' can onlybe written as 'small-town people'.

For all of your examples, you have to decide whether you have a compound adjective, a compound noun or two adjectives each modifying the noun independently.

2 - 'new-client management' is most likely.

3- 'new airlines policy' two independent adjectives is most likely

4- Brown leather jacket I know this usually means a leather jacket which is also brown yes, two independent adjectives but again, are there grammatical reasons why it couldn't be meaning a jacket made of brown leather? No there aren't, but people don't ordinarily talk about 'brown leather'. And who knows what color the leather was originally.

Henry74 · Answer

Thank you for your answer, it's all much clearer now.

Just one thing,

New client management
I'm actually surprised at learning that both the management of new clients and a new way of managing clients/a new team of managers for clients can be rendered by New client management. It seems that I've been adding s's and making genitives without a proper reason.
So, was I right in having second thoughts about new clients' management as it cannot mean the management of new clients? If so, and should I find myself in a situation where I wanted to say the management of new clients but I didn't want to leave room for misinterpretation by saying new client management, would I be forced to use the extended version the management of new clients?

Thank you.
H.

CalifJim · Answer

Henry74It seems that I've been adding s's and making genitives without a proper reason.

That was my thought too. Making genitives is seldom a good solution to the problem you're dealing with.

Henry74new clients' management

This has all the same problems of ambiguity as the original form.

Henry74the extended version the management of new clients?

I can't say you would be forced to use the extended version, but you may decide that the context is insufficient to disambiguate the expression and use the extended version because of that decision.

CJ

Henry74 · Answer

CalifJimThis has all the same problems of ambiguity as the original form.

Oh...
This is actually an enlightening remark. I believe I'm beginning to see the light on this one

Thank you

Henry74 · Answer

@canadian45

Thank you for your answer.

I had forgotten about hyphenation. It was actually mentioned by CJ as well, albeit not in the mandatory fashion you're saying it has to be used. But it certainly simplify things.

canadian45Henry741 - small truck driver It's not a sentence, so don't captialize the first letter.

Oh, you mean to say that in English you don't capitalize the first letter of any new first line if it's not a sentence?
Okay, good to know.

CalifJim · Answer

Henry74in English you don't capitalize the first letter of any new first line if it's not a sentence?

Not exactly. Newspaper headlines, book and movie titles, chapter titles, and section headings within chapters all capitalize the important words, and those aren't sentences. Since you numbered them I took them as headings of some kind.

CJ

Canadian45 · Answer

CalifJimHenry74in English you don't capitalize the first letter of any new first line if it's not a sentence?Not exactly. Newspaper headlines, book and movie titles, chapter titles, and section headings within chapters all capitalize the important words, and those aren't sentences. Since you numbered them I took them as headings of some kind.CJ

But things like "Small truck driver" and "Brown leather jacket" don't really bear resemblance to headlines and titles. They are just phrases that Henry74 is asking about.

Henry74, even some native speakers here have a strong tendency to capitalize nonsentences like you did. I don't think that makes sense, but native speakers will do as they wish.
But for students, learning proper punctuation and capitalization of actual sentences is important. So I think it is advisable for students to acquire the habit of differentiating between sentences and nonsentences, including the need or not for capitalization and punctuation.

CalifJim · Answer

canadian45So I think it is advisable for students to acquire the habit of differentiating between sentences and nonsentences, including the need or not for capitalization and punctuation.

OK. You'll have to ride herd on that. As you see I'm not the greatest at knowing the details of the rules of punctuation. I'm lucky I can remember the basics, and I consult a style manual when necessary.

CJ

Adjective + Attributive Noun + Noun

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