a use of will as in request

Question

When you say "Will you ~?" as in a request using "will", do you almost 100 % sure that the opponent will do it for you? If not, what percentage do you sure/expect??

Laborious · Accepted Answer

hachi8When you say "Will you ~?" as in a request using "will", do you almost 100 % sure that the opponent will do it for you? If not, what percentage do you sure/expect??

I'm not sure how certain the speaker is when he / she asks somebody "will you ...?" I think when somebody asks another person If he / she will do something, the person speaking is saying "are you willing / do you have the willingness to ...?" for eg Will you open the window please? (= are you willing to do that?) or Will you please help the guests wash their hands (=are you willing to do that?)

(Also If I were requesting somebody to do something using the 'will you...?' structure, I'd use the word 'please' with it.)

Hachi8 · Answer

> Laborious

I see. Then , shouldn't I try to understand the usage of "will" from a perspective of percentage of expectation or that of probability?

Laborious · Answer

hachi8Then , shouldn't I try to understand the usage of "will" from a perspective of percentage of expectation or that of probability?

I've never considered or thought of that. The "will you + "base form of a verb", please?" form, to me, is just a less polite and/or more direct version of "would you + "base form of a verb", please?"

For eg: "Will you open the window, please?" is a less polite and/or more direct form than "Would you open the window, please?"

Hachi8 · Answer

Some English grammar books written in Japanese say that some auxiliary verbs can imply the probability of speakers or something like that. And in a textbook, it says

(low probability thought by speakers ) can't ? couldn't ? may/might ? can ? should ? ought to ? would ?
will ? must (high probability thought by speakers).

Hachi8 · Answer

is this above trustworthy??

Laborious · Answer

Below is a link you may find helpful understand the uses of 'will' in English.

http://www.englishgrammarsecrets.com/willotheruses/menu.php

Hachi8 · Answer

Thank you very much <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' alt='Emotion: smile'/>)

Mister Micawber · Answer

hachi8Some English grammar books written in Japanese

That is an immediate danger sign.

hachi8(low probability thought by speakers ) can't ? couldn't ? may/might ? can ? should ? ought to ? would ? will ? must (high probability thought by speakers).

It is a hopeful fantasy that such a neat organization exists. The same applies to percentages, which Japanese teachers and learners love—as if language learning were mathematics.

Hachi8 · Answer

> Mister Micawber

Actually, how do you Western people learn English? I'm looking for a way for Japanese people to understand and use English more intuitively, surrounded by full of Japanese things. To be honest, I felt like "That makes sense!" somewhat when I saw an explanation about "will" which says that you can use "will" if you have 80~90% of confidence that the thing you expect to happen happens. Because that could be also applied to understand the reason you shouldn't use "Will you ~ (do sth to me)?" without "please". Because it's rude to show the attitude which indicates that you think it's almost natural/obvious for the opponent to do it for you while the opponent might not think it's natural to do it for you. That is, there are often the gaps of how to feel/think between speakers and receivers. So you can attach "please" in the sentence to make it softer/politer. I felt like I could understand English by sense (maybe it's because I am Japanese).

Anyway, I don't deny that learning by many experiences is needed to learn languages through the languages. However, i'm wondering if that is only way even for people like Japanese people to learn the sense of English or not. At least, textbooks of English grammar here should be more improved.

Mister Micawber · Answer

hachi8 learning by many experiences is needed to learn languages through the languages.

My feeling is that that is really the only effective way to learn the nuances (i.e., the courtesies, the slang, the innuendos, etc., beyond the basic grammar, vocabulary and structures) of a language. The textbooks who try to do this always seem to miss the mark. By 'experience', I mean vast amounts of reading and listening to native materials, not necessarily having to go to the L2 country and live there.

hachi8ctually, how do you Western people learn English?

By experience.

hachi8At least, textbooks of English grammar here should be more improved.

There is no problem with most of the basic grammars available. In fact, I use 'High School English–The Basic Fundamentals' (Nichiesha Publishing) as an effective review text for most of my low-level students. What is needed is other materials and trained teachers. As you know the transfer of the English program from the secondary schools to the primary schools presents both a danger and a hope. The danger is that virtually none of our primary English teachers can speak English, and the hope is that these younger students will be able to acquire the language more effectively in spite of that obstacle.

a use of will as in request

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