a third version is possible?

Question

Hi,The following two sentences are borrowed from a famous English grammar book (by Murphy):(1) She demanded that I should apologise to her(2) She demanded that I apologised to herOn the other hand, based on my google search results, it looks like most AmEng speakers would prefer yet another "variant", specifically:(3) She demanded that I apologize to herNow, my questions:1. Are these three variants "equally common" in modern English?    (Let's disregard the S /Z spelling alternative for apologize for a moment:-)2. Are they 100% identical in meaning? (perhaps different degrees of "modality" or something?)thank you!mus-te

Terryxpress · Accepted Answer

How many native speakers - we who 'use grammar' - would say 2?
This is an instance of formal Reported Speech versus colloquial reporting, which has been a frequent topic in the forum.
She said, demandingly, "Apologise to me."
Strict Reported Speech: She demanded that I apologised to her.

What I would say to a friend:
She demanded that I apologise to her.

Similar to:
She: You have to go with me to the concert.

She insisted I go with her to the concert. ( not "I went..."

MUSCOVITE · Answer

Thank you, Terryxpress

TerryxpressHow many native speakers - we who 'use grammar' - would say 2?

In other words, English learners had better NOT use version (2)?

Only (3) and (1) are normally used in modern English?

Moreover, (3) is normally preferable to (1) (unless the context is "very formal")?

Terryxpress · Answer

This is not the first time that I, for one, have thought that Murphy's book - how should I express this - is not a grammar book I would recommend.

If you are taking an exam, like the Cambridge, abide by the rules for Strict Reported Speech. (It is being used as a test of the transposition of tenses.) Otherwise, speakers use the tense that makes most sense to them.

There was a thread some months ago where I posted examples of this, and how speech that was strictly reported did not make practical sense in the situation.

MUSCOVITE · Answer

Thanks again!

TerryxpressThere was a thread some months ago where I posted examples of this, and how speech that was strictly reported did not make practical sense in the situation.

I will check the EnglishForward archive for this thread.

Terryxpress · Answer

Here's an example:

Me (to a friend): "I'm/I am moving into a new flat next Saturday. Can you help me move?"
Friend: "No, I'm/I am working that day."
In strict Reported Speech, this would be:
I told him I was moving to a new flat the following Saturday, and asked if he could help me move. He said no, that he was working that day."
But imagine it is a day or two after that conversation. It is Friday, and I move tomorrow. My mother is talking to me about the move:
Mother: Maybe your friend John has some spare time tomorrow and can help you.
Me: I asked him, but he said he is working tomorrow.
Note that when 'reporting' the conversation to my mother, I don't follow the wording precisely; AND that I use the Present Tense, because this is Friday and I am moving/he is working tomorrow.
To say...
Me (to my mother): I asked him, but he was working tomorrow
...is talking about something in the future as if it has already happened and in the past: "... but he was working tomorrow.
That's what I mean about ordinary conversation, when we choose the tense that makes most sense.

English is an ego-centric language, meaning that when I speak, I talk about a situation as I see it, from my viewpoint. I move tomorrow. My friend is working tomorrrow. Both of these are facts that are true, not past events, over and done with; so it doesn't occur to me/doesn't seem 'natural' to use the Past Tense 'was working'.

Regards · Answer

Hi,

1) She demanded that I apologize to her.

The verb apologize is in the subjunctive mood. This verb form is usually used to express suggestions, wishes,

demands, possibility, uncertainty, etc. The subjunctive is still common in modern English, though it was

in wider usage years ago. AmE speakers would prefer to use this version.

2) She demanded that I should apologise to her.

This sentence means the same as the one above. Here, should does not mean anything like ought to, but it is simply

an equivalent of the subjunctive. It is called the putative should, and BrE speakers would prefer to use this version.

3) She demanded that I apologized to her.

This sentence simply seems incorrect to me. I would not use this version at all. Demand triggers the subjunctive.

Regards

MUSCOVITE · Answer

Very simple. Very clear.
And complete too!
Thanks a lot!

a third version is possible?

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