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Usenet Posted 23 years ago
Usage
A strange American accent
I hate Archie Bunker's accent! He speaks in a peculiar New York style, which tends to substitute the diphthong oy for the schwa+r combination. Thus "murder" sounds like "moider", and "thirty" sounds like "thoity". This phenomenon is just fascinating to me. It's as if the schwa has risen from the dead, morphing from a neutral vowel into a full-blown diphthong. Linguistically it seems improbable. True, r is known to modify a previous vowel where I'm from the schwa+r combination is rendered as a kind of gliding semivowel but this diphthong version is just weird.
What's the deal with this accent? I'd guess that foreign influence had something to do with it; after all, the schwa and the r are two of the hardest English sounds for foreigners. Does it only occur in New York, or do other places have the same thing?
What's the deal with this accent? I'd guess that foreign influence had something to do with it; after all, the schwa and the r are two of the hardest English sounds for foreigners. Does it only occur in New York, or do other places have the same thing?
Top answer
[nq:1]I hate Archie Bunker's accent! He speaks in a peculiar New York style,which tends to substitute the diphthong oy for ... [/nq] I guess the "oy" pronunciation developed from the original full pronunciation of "ur", ie.
- [nq:1]I hate Archie Bunker's accent!
- He speaks in a peculiar New York style,which tends to substitute the diphthong oy for ...
- [/nq] I guess the "oy" pronunciation developed from the original full pronunciation of "ur", ie.
- "oor".
- If you say "moorder" you'll see it's not such a great leap to "moirder".
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37 Answers
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[nq:1]I hate Archie Bunker's accent! He speaks in a peculiar New York style,which tends to substitute the diphthong oy for ... vowel where I'm from the schwa+r combination is rendered as a kind of gliding semivowel but this diphthong version is just weird.[/nq]
I guess the "oy" pronunciation developed from the original full pronunciation of "ur", ie. "oor". If you say "moorder" you'll see it's
I guess the "oy" pronunciation developed from the original full pronunciation of "ur", ie. "oor". If you say "moorder" you'll see it's
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[nq:1]I guess the "oy" pronunciation developed from the original full pronunciation of "ur", ie. "oor". If you say "moorder" you'll see it's not such a great leap to "moirder".[/nq]
There's no reason to think that "murder" was ever pronounced with a long u. If it had had the long u, it would probably have been spelt mourder, for that was the custom in Middle English (due to Norman influence I
There's no reason to think that "murder" was ever pronounced with a long u. If it had had the long u, it would probably have been spelt mourder, for that was the custom in Middle English (due to Norman influence I
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[nq:1]I hate Archie Bunker's accent! He speaks in a peculiar New York style, which tends to substitute the diphthong oy ... hardest English sounds for foreigners. Does it only occur in New York, or do other places have the same thing?[/nq]
By "foreign", do you mean Montana where O'Connor went to the University of Montana?
Born in Manhattan and raised in Queens, O'Connor came by the ugly ac
By "foreign", do you mean Montana where O'Connor went to the University of Montana?
Born in Manhattan and raised in Queens, O'Connor came by the ugly ac
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[nq:1]I hate Archie Bunker's accent! He speaks in a peculiar New York style, which tends to substitute the diphthong oy ... hardest English sounds for foreigners. Does it only occur in New York, or do other places have the same thing?[/nq]It has nothing to do with "foreigners" the feature was evidently present among communities of speakers you'd probably consider non-foreign in the late 19th centu
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[nq:1]It has nothing to do with "foreigners" the feature was evidently present among communities of speakers you'd probably consider ... born after 1941, and you have to search a bit to find anyone born between 1930 and 1941 using it).[/nq]
One 1930-born speaker who has this (V"I) diphthong is Harlem Congressman Charlie Rangel.
One 1930-born speaker who has this (V"I) diphthong is Harlem Congressman Charlie Rangel.
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[nq:2]From what I understand, this (V"I) diphthong was once much ... to find anyone born between 1930 and 1941 using it).[/nq]
[nq:1]One 1930-born speaker who has this (V"I) diphthong is Harlem Congressman Charlie Rangel.[/nq]
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 21 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)
[nq:1]One 1930-born speaker who has this (V"I) diphthong is Harlem Congressman Charlie Rangel.[/nq]
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 21 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)
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[nq:1]It has nothing to do with "foreigners" the feature was evidently present among communities of speakers you'd probably consider non-foreign in the late 19th century, if not earlier. Also, the phenomenon occurs in[/nq]
Woah. Scare quotes on "foreigners". Let's not get political here.
[nq:1]You reveal your prejudices and bigotry in characterizing anything having[/nq]
Ach! I knew it
Woah. Scare quotes on "foreigners". Let's not get political here.
[nq:1]You reveal your prejudices and bigotry in characterizing anything having[/nq]
Ach! I knew it
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[nq:1]New York is (or was) known for its lots of foreigners: everyone knows that; it's not exactly a secret. Ever heard of Ellis Island?[/nq]
Ellis Island, New Jersey?
Ellis Island, New Jersey?
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[nq:2]I hate Archie Bunker's accent! He speaks in a peculiar ... New York, or do other places have the same thing?[/nq]
[nq:1]It has nothing to do with "foreigners" the feature was evidently present among communities of speakers you'd probably consider ... born after 1941, and you have to search a bit to find anyone born between 1930 and 1941 using it).[/nq]
Yeah, Fontana! I was going to s
[nq:1]It has nothing to do with "foreigners" the feature was evidently present among communities of speakers you'd probably consider ... born after 1941, and you have to search a bit to find anyone born between 1930 and 1941 using it).[/nq]
Yeah, Fontana! I was going to s
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Ellis Island is in New JERSEY (a very different place than New York), thank you very much. Yes, New York has a lot of foreigners in the city, but I've always heard the New York accent comes from British colonial influence.
The "melting pot"?
The "melting pot"?
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