A lamentation of swans

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Hi all,Can anyone confirm whether the phrase "a lamentation of swans" is the correct collective description for a number of swans on land (or water). If you think it is, do you have a reference that provides some sort of authority? Is it British English or perhaps American? I can't seem to find any definitive reference, and only 25 google hits doesn't convince me.Regards,Jon

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Hi all, Can anyone confirm whether the phrase "a lamentation of swans" is the correct collective description for a number ... British English or perhaps American? I can't seem tofind any definitive reference, and only 25 google hits doesn't convince me.[/nq]
Check your library for the book: "An Exaltation of Larks". (Mine's in storage).

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Hi all, Can anyone confirm whether the phrase "a lamentation of swans" is the correct collective description for a number ... English or perhaps American? I can't seem to find any definitive reference, and only 25 google hits doesn't convince me.[/nq]
I first heard "a lamentation of swans" used in British English some 50 to 55 years ago. I have come across it from time to time since.

Looking at the Google references convinces me that lamentation is sufficiently widely known to be considered "correct".

Other collective nouns for swans, which I have met in use, are: Herd, Bevy, Wedge (when flying in a "V" formation); and occasionally Flock.

A list at http://www.vigay.com/nouns/birds.html gives: Herd, Bank, Bevy, Game, Squadron, Wedge, Whiteness, Drift.

Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from a.e.u)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Can anyone confirm whether the phrase "a lamentation of swans" is the correct collective description for a number of swans ... English or perhaps American? I can't seem to find any definitive reference, and only 25 google hits doesn't convince me.[/nq]
"a wedge of swans
"Since the publication of the first edition of this book, many correspondents have inquired about the omission of a term for swans. (... I)ts inclusion here should put to rest any questions about its omission in earlier editions; it is a singularly colorless term for so inviting a subject. But we can take heart from Eliot's assertion, quoted earlier, that words 'slip, slide ... will not stay in place,' which is simply to say that the swans and the English language await your creative contribution."

Odysseus

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I first heard "a lamentation of swans" used in British English some 50 to 55 years ago. I have come across it from time to time since. Looking at the Google references convinces me that lamentation is sufficiently widely known to be considered "correct".[/nq]
You are easily convinced. I only found 26 Google references, and almost all of those references are pages dealing specifically with collective nouns. Aren't you at all suspicious about why there are no examples of the phrase in use in the wild, as it were, i.e., the natural use of the phrase in a context not dealing with collective nouns?

Sebastian.

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Hi Sebastian,
That is exactly what I said in my original post. There were only 26 matches - which doesn't convince me as they probably all copied from each other anyway...
Regards,
Jon

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I first heard "a lamentation of swans" used in British ... that lamentation is sufficiently widely known to be considered "correct".[/nq]
[nq:1]You are easily convinced. I only found 26 Google references, and almost all of those references are pages dealing specifically ... the wild, as it were, i.e., the natural use of the phrase in a context not dealing with collective nouns?[/nq]
The Google references simply confirmed to me that I had not dreamed of the existence of the phrase "a lamentation of swans" - a phrase, which as I wrote, I recall meeting from time to time during half a century.

We must always bear in mind the extreme limitations of Google.
1. It can index only those items that are online - by definition.
2. An enormous number of books, periodicals, newspapers, and audio and videorecordings are not online.

3. The vast majority of human communication, speech, is not recorded in anyway.
Back to the swans.
Collective nouns for swans and other beasties range from mundane, neutral, terms such as Flock, Herd and Pack, through straightforward descriptive words like wedge, to the somewhat poetic like Lamentation and Exultation.

The Berwick Swan and Wildlife Trust in the UK uses "herd" for a group of swans:
http://www.swan-trust.org.uk/trust.htm
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service refers to a flock of "swans". E.g.: http://news.fws.gov/newsreleases/r6/A0480922-3826-46BD-92900F328C8C0206.html

"Poetic" collective nouns such as "lamentation" describe some aspect of the collection or its constituents.
In the case of "lamentation", my guess is that it is derived from the somewhat mournful sound of a swan's call. I would use the word only if I wished to draw attention to that aspect of a particular group of swans.

Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from a.e.u)

A lamentation of swans

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