Question

Please look at the following

1. I will give you the book by Friday.

Does this mean anytime starting before Friday or does it include friday as well?

Can I give the book on any day before Friday, like monday or tuesday of that week?

Please help me understand.

Also what is the difference between these sentence

a) At the earliest I will give you the book by Friday.

b) At the latest I will give you the book by Friday.

c) I will give you the book by Friday.

Thank you.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

deepuji1. I will give you the book by Friday.Does this mean anytime starting before Friday or does it include Friday as well?

I take it to mean before Friday, i.e., Thursday at 11:59 pm at the latest. For most ordinary communications the inclusion of Friday (or not) does not matter so much. If the speaker wishes to be legally precise, he will say this in a different way that is unmistakably precise.

When someone says he'll do something by Friday, he will usually have it done well before Friday so there's usually no need to quibble over the precise meaning of "by Friday".

deepujiCan I give the book on any day before Friday

Yes. It's like winning a race. It doesn't matter whether you win when the second-place winner is two feet behind you or when he is several miles behind you. You have crossed the finish line by the time he does.
________

a) At the earliest I will give you the book by Friday.
b) At the latest I will give you the book by Friday.
___

In the preceding two sentences, you have "earliest" with a by-phrase and "latest" with a by-phrase. In a way, these say the same thing twice, and "on Friday" would be better.

At the earliest I'll give you the book on Friday.
I'll give you the book on Friday or later, but not earlier.
At the latest I'll give you the book on Friday.
I'll give you the book on Friday or earlier, but not later.
___

c) I will give you the book by Friday.

This was discussed above.

CJ

Deepuji · Answer

Thank you my best teacher for all ages my CJ sir. I am honored to be taught by you, and I keep telling my friends about you all.

Sir I have a few questions about what you have explained

When I say "I will give you the book by Friday" then as you say it has to be before Friday, then it could mean, say, on Wednesday. This would be mean I am a day too early to give the book. Right? So that means the the recipient will have the book even by Thursday. Am I right? But sir, will the recipient not be confused as to when he/she will receive the book and would be in a state of anxiety? So how would you propose to tackle this seeming confusion? Would the use of at the earliest help here?

"In the preceding two sentences, you have "earliest" with a by-phrase and "latest" with a by-phrase. In a way, these say the same thing twice, and "on Friday" would be better."

Sir do you mean we must use 'by' in the sense of on here?

I looked up the dictionary and found out these

at the earliest:

I can get it done by Monday at the earliest. (Wouldn't using this construction be contradictory because on the one hand usage of by would mean before Monday, but at the earliest can't be before Monday)

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/the-earliest

Road traffic to resume by Monday at the earliest on Sarah Long Bridge

Road Traffic to Resume by Monday at the Earliest on Sarah Long Bridge

Please help me understand it, sir.

CalifJim · Answer

deepujiWhen I say "I will give you the book by Friday" then as you say it has to be before Friday

No, it doesn't have to be before Friday. It's just that many people will deliver the book before Friday when they say "I'll give it to you by Friday".

deepujiit could mean, say, on Wednesday. This would be mean I am a day too early to give the book. Right?

No. There is no day that is too early when you say "I'll give you the book by Friday". It just says, "You will have the book before Friday", though some people include Friday and they mean "You will have the book before the end of the day on Friday".

deepujiwill the recipient not be confused as to when he/she will receive the book and would be in a state of anxiety?

I don't think so. In any case, the grammar has nothing to do with the state of anxiety of the speakers.

deepujiWould the use of at the earliest help here?

No, but "at the latest" would be more precise. "I'll give you the book [on / by] Friday at the latest."

deepujiI can get it done by Monday at the earliest. (Wouldn't using this construction be contradictory because on the one hand usage of by would mean before Monday, but at the earliest can't be before Monday)

Yes. It's possible that it could be contradictory or ambiguous.
_____________________

The trouble you're having is the same trouble any native speaker would have. The reason is that "by" wants a specific point in time, and the names of days are not specific times. Each day lasts 24 hours and we don't know what time within that 24 hours is meant if we hear someone say "by Monday" or "by Thursday", and so on. To be on the safe side, we usually think these mean "by the beginning of the day on Monday", and so on. Or, as is quite common whenever there is ambiguity, we ask the other person if he means the beginning or the end of Monday (or Thursday). These expressions do not occur in a vacuum. They occur in conversations with others who can be asked questions if there is any doubt.

If you do not need to be so precise, you can use expressions like "by Monday", but if you need to be precise, you must use more precise expressions, such as those that follow:

by Monday at 8 am
by Friday at 9:15 pm

Note that "by Monday at 8 am" means the same as "by Monday at 8 am at the latest" or "on Monday at 8 am at the latest". Therefore, you do not have to add "at the latest" to these expressions. But to specify "earliest" you must add it to your sentence: "by Monday at 8 am at the earliest" (possibly confusing) or "on Monday at 8 am at the earliest" (not confusing).

So Road traffic to resume by Monday at the earliest on Sarah Long Bridge should have been written, in my opinion, as Road traffic to resume on Monday at the earliest on Sarah Long Bridge. More precisely, this is saying Road traffic to resume at some unknown time on Monday (or maybe later if there are delays) on Sarah Long Bridge.

CJ

Deepuji · Answer

Thank you Jim sir.

Sir, this is what I have understood from what you have told me. Please tell me if I have got it correctly or not

When we say by 8 am then it means by 7:59 am at the latest and no later than that. As according to what you have said it is before 8 am. Am I right?

Or would by 8 am mean not later than 8 am and would include 8 am as well?

Which one is the correct interpretation, sir. Please help me.

Thank you.

CalifJim · Answer

deepujiWhen we say by 8 am then it means by 7:59 am at the latest and no later than that. As according to what you have said it is before 8 am. Am I right?

Yes.

deepujiOr would by 8 am mean not later than 8 am and would include 8 am as well?

No. You are pushing a point which never comes up in the real world. You need to stop fretting about this.

CJ

Deepuji · Answer

Thank you for replying sir. You are right that I need to stop fretting about this. Sorry to have been such a bother. I spent a lot of time thinking about this. Sorry!

But I have one genuine question. Please help me with this.

What is the difference between

1. I will give you the book by Friday by 8 am.

2. I will have given you the book by Friday by 8 am.

Is the difference of Point of view? I mean in 1. we are looking from now and in 2. we are looking from the point of view of 8am. Am I right?

Thank you

CalifJim · Answer

deepujiby Friday by 8 am

Don't put "by" twice! Write by Friday at 8 am.

deepujidifference ... in 1. we are looking from now and in 2. we are looking from the point of view of 8am. Am I right?

Right.

CJ

Deepuji · Answer

Sir I have a question linked to the topic we discussed

1. I gave him the book by last night.(Is this correct?)

2. I had given him the book by last night.

My question is that are the two same? and the only difference is the temporal reference point? The reference point for "I gave him the book by last night" is now and the reference point for "I had given him the book by last night" is last night.

Is this interpretation correct? If not then please correct me and also tell me the difference between them.

Thank you.

CalifJim · Answer

deepuji1. I gave him the book by last night.(Is this correct?)

No. "by" shows a difference in time references that should be reflected in the choice of tense, as in your second example.

deepuji2. I had given him the book by last night.

OK. Use this one, not the first one.

CJ

Deepuji · Answer

Thank you for replying sir.

I found this usage in the newspaper here.

By March 1994, India signed the first BIPA with UK, which had first raised the demand for such an investment protection pact. Similar agreements were to follow soon the same year with Russia and later with Germany, Malaysia, Denmark and other countries. By 2010, India had signed up with 72 countries and enforced these agreements too and another 11 were signed but are yet to be enforced.

So "By March 1994, India signed" is the wrong usage and it should have been "By March 1994, India had signed". Am I right?

Similarly in the same report there is "By 2010, India had signed up with 72 countries". Does by 2010 mean before 2010 or may have been signed in 2010 also? I feel it has to be. Am I right? It is sadly vague and as you explained earlier that a year is a big time frame to provide and we must be careful to be precise, unlike this irresponsible writer who is confusing people.

Please help me .

Thank you.

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